I should probably start taking melatonin or something

@RustyCrab benzos

@RustyCrab melatonin, like caffeine, has a compounding effect to where you'll need to take more and more and more.

It also is linked to depression and maybe retinal detachment with prolonged use.

Personally I take it only on occasion but I have the luxury of sleeping all day so there's that.

@prettygood @RustyCrab is that so? in what way? melatonin just doesnt work enough on me with my panic attacks and benadryl has too many consequences and sometimes doesnt work

@prettygood @maija that's very odd. I think half my friends having taken it on and off through their life and they've never mentioned anything like this

@prettygood @maija ... you're not mixing it with alcohol are you?

@prettygood @RustyCrab interesting. melatonin doesn't do anythting to me butt make me a little more tired but that's not enough to get over my insomnia generalyl speaking

@prettygood @RustyCrab @maija melatonin makes it imposible to go into rem sleep, aka you basically did not sleep.

@prettygood @RustyCrab yeah sounds about right if i have an alarm i will wake up still tired from melatonin and absolutely its long time and takes a while to kick in. if i get panicks again in that while too bad effect nullified, its so minor no matter how much i take

@dcc @RustyCrab @maija is that fuckin why? That would explain a lot.

@prettygood @maija Valerian has that effect on me but not as extreme. Maybe I should get back on that instead

@RustyCrab nigga crab arc

@prettygood @RustyCrab @maija Yep, so if you know what real sleep is like then it is like staying up all night while also being uncomfortable.

@prettygood @maija I used it for a few years. its very mild but if you have insomnia from high anxiety it can help you. It has enough of an effect that I'm confident it's not placebo

@RustyCrab @prettygood i wish it helped me tbh, i wouldnt say my insomnia is general anxieties but definitely panic attacks/ptsd shit happens frequently and worsens it a lot

@prettygood @maija actually did you take it in pill form or tea? There's a lot of effectively fake Valerian that's 98% other ingredients that don't do anything. Big problem with teas. I assume similar with pills

Real Valerian should smell like a sweaty foot

@maija @prettygood I get it. People are very judgmental of addicts until they find out the hard way that a lot of addiction comes from not being able to sleep anymore

@RustyCrab melatonin makes me have fucked up dreams like being in the dark with goop all over me and melting and tasting bad stuff and falling through the floor

@goatmeal like

@deprecated_ii @maija @prettygood I will frequently sleep through alarms when I'm on it.

Which is fine because alarms aren't good for you anyway

@RustyCrab @prettygood people are overly judgemental in general, what does it matter if its sleeping pills or painkillers or amphetamine nobody chose to get addicted to shit

@dcc @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood I’m gonna need a source on this because I take 10mg a night to keep my sleep schedule regular and I have zero problems getting into REM

@sapphire @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood It works the same as caffeine in a sense (after you use it at the same amounts it does nothing) either its placebo or you are just going to sleep lol.

@sapphire @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood I think you did not read the first part of what i wrote, its like caffeine it stops working after you use the same amount for some time.

@sapphire @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood > ok so how long am I getting absolutely destroyed on my basic bodily functions before it magically turns into a sugar pill bro?
What
>you didn’t bother finding that source I asked for:
as far as i know there is no real study about metlation that matters
>Apple Watch
Not even close to accurate, i do have a study for that (i need to find it)

@sapphire @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood >I accept your concession,
Is not, everyone i talk to who takes it reports the exact same shit.
Also >watch on for two nights and bothering my girlfriend for hers
Yea that was not hard to guess

@sapphire @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood (that means everything you said is a lie and is basically useless )

@dcc @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood I don’t sleep with my watch on since I got the series 10 because the Milanese loop isn’t very comfortable in sleep. I was going to bother my girlfriend for her data because she takes melatonin nightly and would have your magic sugar pill placebo resistance if it existed.

@dcc @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood inb4 “that’s not enough data”

Source: my watch is far superior to source: your ass buddy

@sapphire @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood >have your magic sugar pill placebo resistance if it existed.
The point is you can't measure sleep with fitness watches, so it does not really matter. Unless you have some better evidence other than "werks for me" nothing else here lol.

@dcc @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood unless you’ve got better evidence than “doesn’t werk for vague others”

@sapphire @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood I say i know about 5-7 people that all report similar issues.

@sapphire @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood In fact in this very thread we have some one, i mean thats somewhat important.

@dcc @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood I know a billion people who don’t therefore my anecdote is better.

Off topic but: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10654909/

The Apple Watch (series 8 which has less accurate sleep tracking than the Ultra and the series 10 which I’ve used) aren’t terribly accurate but they tend to skew data away from REM and deep sleep rather than toward it so would at least be good enough to disprove your retarded “melatonin doesn’t let you REM” claim

@dcc @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14715839/
The results of the study show that melatonin was significantly more effective than placebo: patients on melatonin experienced significant increases in REM sleep percentage (baseline/melatonin, 14.7/17.8 vs. baseline/placebo, 14.3/12.0) and improvements in subjective measures of daytime dysfunction as well as clinical global impression score. Melatonin did not shift circadian phase or suppress temperature but did increase REM sleep continuity and promote decline in rectal temperature during sleep.

Maybe you should start taking it so you can cool your ass down :)

@RustyCrab @dcc @maija @prettygood
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1665336/
During melatonin treatment, sleep in the first 8 h of the 16 h sleep opportunities was increased by 2 h. Sleep per 16 h was not significantly different and approached asymptotic values of 8.7 h in both conditions. The percentage of rapid eye movement (REM) sleep was not affected by melatonin, but the percentage of stage 2 sleep and sleep spindle activity increased, and the percentage of stage 3 sleep decreased. During the washout night, the melatonin-induced advance in sleep timing persisted, but was smaller than on the preceding treatment night and was consistent with the advance in the endogenous melatonin rhythm. These data demonstrate robust, direct sleep-facilitating and circadian effects of melatonin without concomitant changes in sleep duration, and support the use of melatonin in the treatment of sleep disorders in which the circadian melatonin rhythm is delayed relative to desired sleep time.

@sapphire @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood > 4 wk.
Not even close enough
Also the reason why there is a "increase" is more likey to do with the fact they are in a study that says it will fix there problem
Extra also >five women, nine men

@sapphire @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood > 14 day trials
Even less time
> eight
>24
Different age to
You got to read before you start talking fren

@RustyCrab @dcc @maija @prettygood what you may be describing is a cessation of symptoms of RBD (REM sleep Behavior Disorder) which is when your body lets you act out your dreams

Im having trouble finding a good study for it (I’m 40k feet over the mid Atlantic) but a lot of med journals are saying that external melatonin promotes proper skeletal paralysis during REM sleep, which if you’ve been living with RBD your whole life can be jarring.

@dcc @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood how about you stop criticizing my studies and find better ones. We’re now two studies and a medical journal, my personal experience and the personal experience of my girlfriend vs “source: your ass”

Do better or I’m going back to sleep, you’re legitimately more boring than a 9 hour transatlantic flight

@sapphire @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood >stop criticizing my studies
No i don't think i will, becuase you know why? study does not mean anything unless its right.
>I’m going back to sleep
I'm not you can though.

@dcc @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood I thought I couldn’t because melatonin fucked my REM

@sapphire @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood Well what ever you consider "sleep" to be

@dcc @RustyCrab @maija @prettygood definitely more interesting than your Saturday night troll session

@sapphire @dcc @RustyCrab @maija my wife bought some canvas weave band for hers that she likes, which is noteworthy because she has texture autism about how things feel. I can ask her if you're looking for other options

@prettygood @dcc @RustyCrab @maija nah I don’t like wearing it to sleep anyway