I've seen a fair few people on fedi over the last few days defending incest, and I agree that between two consenting adults I couldn't care less what goes on.

But that's fully ignoring that in the majority of cases incest is fully coercive and not at all consensual. Finding almost nonexistent situations and arguing that it is okay in them is intentionally misleading at best.

@freakshow its a buried topic at this point and good to be fashionably late to. In any case I think i realize at this point people seem to be comfortable in common rhetoric to see consent as merely ‘seen’ rather than heard, experienced, etc.

Like one thing i never mentioned is, if 2 people at a carnival were kissing theres no way for me to even know if they are related by family ties already or not or if the kiss is consensual or really anything other than what i currently see. I am going to for peace of mind and goodwill start from the assumption everything is fine but im not going to precept it that way no matter what. This is not something you just know by looking at someone.

we now live in a period where people rationalize what they think only by what they see at a distance and it kind of a bummer. You can shadowbox anything disagreeable by saying ‘well i only know what I see from over here so not my problem’.

@freakshow that being said i do think this raises another explanation for why ppl were so defensive abt this, you dont want this stuff to be criminalized because of unironic vigilanteism and its overlap with lgbt hate. If people can justify a hate crime by saying that ‘they thought they were related’ it gives them more reason to want to make the that alibi less credible. Ive had ppl say they thought me and my overseas ex were related before for instance.

This is an interesting explanation but I dont expect too many ppl to be interested in weighing the actual implications of thinking like that but me so ill leave it for the essays.

@freakshow i didnt even realize u were a straight up new person hello new person welcome in

@Erato_Heti oh yeah I recently found the thread it was all about, wayyyy more hellish than I realized. But yes, at a base level I don't really think any of this is rhetoric that should be used for judgment, it is more up to the individual to police themselves.

At the end of the day telling someone that their relationship is wrong is stupid and will have no useful effect. The ideal outcome is that people will use information provided to make good decisions, and beyond that it is out of my hands and out of my scope.

@freakshow yes it was a discussion that got 1 of the locals straight up banned because she wouldnt shut up talking about it and getting on random other users case too much, she was doing it for days (this is exceedingly rare, like to my knowledge, shes the only person I know that has been dealt with this way. it was also because she was being kind of transphobic about it though so dont worry about potential 'wrongspeak' or anything like that.). there was not 1 hellthread. there was a half dozen or so tethered in distance to each other in a sort of ratking of obsessive back and forthing. the primary starting point was also pretty bad but also happened between people outside of xenofemme.

im just glad you have the good sense to come in and point out the obvious, that the starting point of 'consensual incest' being kind of misleading...but yeah dw abt it otherwise.

@Erato_Heti yeah the criminalization route is rarely the right one, especially with a modern penal system and current sentiment!! That's just inviting people *known* to be hostile and abusive (law enforcement) into the situation.

@Erato_Heti hello

@Erato_Heti to be very honest, seeing the controversy around it also made me want to make it fairly easy to determine my position on the matter 😅 if it's a big problem for anyone it's easier to be straightforward about it I find

I do appreciate you replying to fill me in, it did make me feel a bit more sane after seeing the mess some of this stuff has been

@freakshow the important part to bear in mind is that while we are a chaotic people over here, even us are not that bad usually. usually theres a more collaborative effort than that. movienights, essay effort posts, etc.

just mute people that are getting too pouty on the TL, if it bothers you and youll be fine.

@freakshow you can also mute conversations. dont forget that! it will be a mystery tool we can use for later

@freakshow @Erato_Heti you joined xnfm at a very interesting time , it seems ..

@Erato_Heti @freakshow I completely ignored that whole thing because I'm already comfortable in my own views of it and I couldn’t be bothered to care, someone got BANNED over it????????? Jesus christ

@sierra @Erato_Heti @freakshow she started making very very tasteless posts about topics, particularly v-coding and started making basically transphobic remarks
because of the crashout those threads prompted her to have

@MalibuSunrise @sierra @Erato_Heti @freakshow
what her new account
I think she was funny (except the latest drama the post was kinda coal)

@MalibuSunrise @sierra @freakshow it was a very deserved ban tbh

@sierra @Erato_Heti @freakshow i mean she did try to insist all of us were men except for her

@MURRUMUR @sierra @Erato_Heti @freakshow honestly probably the worst crashout i've seen on social media. it wasn't a sudden thing though she like constantly talked about "agp" and "gooner" and all that /pol/ dawkins mumbo jumbo and whenever there was ever any trans person in the news she would post the voidjak and say optics fail and shit like that. she was based for a long time i really enjoyed her posts but it was this steady decline that ended with her being totally unable to verbalize what turned out to almost be an interesting argument until she was like twenty long paragraph length replies into the thread because she could neither separate nor understand why anyone would separate rape and incest and rather than engaging with it she just kept digging herself a deeper grave until the mask came off and she was just outwardly transphobic. in her traumadump she basically admitted it was her own personal experiences with the subject that made her so heated but like i don't understand how you spend so much time on the internet and don't learn how to separate or use constructively your personal experiences in an argument (or, for that matter, how anyone would think thirty replies into a thread that anything good could come of continuing the discussion, but i also ended up being a participant so please learn from my sordid mistake)

@3 @MURRUMUR @freakshow @sierra youre talking about somebody who is actively around horrible people in the UK with no social network, identifies as Christian, went through horrible life experiences. Its not that hard to understand how you lose the plot and conditionality and righteousness overwrite what you were doing, especially if you already have self esteem issues. Shes also not dead or anything shes on letterboxd, mastodon (i think), etc. she’s apparently very easy to get along with in person.

We dont have to have a memorium over this shit because it wasnt a vote to begin with. The admin took care of it and we all went ‘yeah thats fair’. The moment you start imbuing this place with some sort of special posting properties is actually where it can fall apart. If you reach the edgepoint of being an annoying shithead and be rude to everyone and get on thier case, you will eventually be removed. Then you will find somewhere else to be. Thats the internet in a nutshell.

@3 @MURRUMUR @freakshow @sierra although i should say in a just world it should be about that level of agitation that gets you removed so its not like i look down on illustrating this situation as basically fair and a forgone conclusion its more a matter of, outside the grand scheme of it it just starts feeling like bad gossip. Thats just some woman with a really bad complex you know. Its not the end of the world that a sad UK christian got too in her own head. Shes just got to go figure that shit out somewhere else.

@Erato_Heti i see internet profiles as personas as opposed to people. the death of a profile is the death of the persona. that identity wasn't an extension of them but a manifestation of a certain line of their thinking. i've had some horrible takes that live on without me, i killed the personae and moved on though my experience remains within me

if we had any sort of personal relationship i would feel differently about them but they were a name on a screen and when we meet again they will get a clean slate in the sense that i won't remember or care what they once were. i recognize this sort of irc/channer ideology may be outdated in the sense that in modern times people live their lives between pixels but i think its loss lead to this horrible identity-based internet we have today. what is said is much more important than who says it

@3 youre being a moron and youre doing that thing that i definitely dont get along with which is sort of quietly distancing from what people call themselves by they/theming them several times in a row. you didnt 'kill' anybody by ragebaiting her a little when she was suceptible to it. this edgy faux-remorse is not helpful. you know what if you really think like that then good luck cause the pirahnas will come for you next. just leave me be,

@Erato_Heti i'm sorry, i lapse into it. i'll edit my post

@3 thank you. i appreciate that youre catching yourself but you wouldnt have been able to edit the post in channer nostagia days. this is exactly what im talking about, if what you say matters this much then by that same logic it should matter not to say thoughtless shit more so quickly. its because you want to represent a better person not a better poster thats causing you to edit your words. but thats the thing i think the whole of this manner of thinking about yourself and others is rotten and im trying to illustrate that on the base level without getting on your case too much.

but you dont have to appeal to me. im just telling you it has no currency with me. have a good day.