it seems that I can't give twitter enough money for them to stop putting unsolicited politics shitting in my home page. I JUST want to see vtuber bullshit dude, I promise I won't ask how tesla sources batteries

@sampo no. we MUST divide public.

@sampo Lots of chuubas seem to be moving to bluesky anyway right?

@druid do they? I don't really pay attention, I'm gonna hate it if I have to sign up for another one of these god forsaken websites

@sampo I saw a few threads on /vt/ about it but I'm conditioned to avoid Twitter (they don't even let you view a post properly without an account now.) I don't know how much better bluesky is, I just automatically assumed it'd be just as full of shadowbanning and algorithmic slop as Twitter because capitalism lol

I feel like I'm moving towards smaller chuubas anyway. If you talk in a South Side stream they actually respond to you. Same for their discord. It's comfier and there's no corpo drama at all.

@sampo Threads let's you hide political stuff from the algo

@sampo i think you can set the following tab as default or something and only see that content

@druid oh I'm sure if you read it on /vt/ then in 2 weeks twitter is gonna be empty of vtubers

I haven't looked into bluesky one bit but I assume it's hot garbage that no one's gonna use in the long run. I understand that's kind of a silly thing to post on THE FEDDYVERSE but for the purposes of me stalking e-celebs it actually matters.

I'm the opposite really, I like a decent sized crowd because then it's like I'm not even there. The same reason I'll find any excuse to not log in to discord. I hate the whole chat interaction dynamic anyway, I never post anything if it's not a superchat and even then I don't write anything. I just try to ignore it and I'm thankful when the streamer tries too.

@sampo @druid stealth stalker huh

@meowski it sneaks in to following too, it doesn't matter

@sampo ah bummer. i still haven't created a new account since musk bought it

@sampo You have paid for superchats? I still haven't given any money to vtubing ever, though I am considering supporting my 1-2views oshi because she would benefit from it.

>Find any excuse not to log into discord

I NOTICED. How am I supposed to goon to you like this?

@druid sure, I got some cash so I might as well sling it around a bit. I think it's fair, I would be very sad without this stuff.

@druid @sampo use your imagination, bro

@sampo That's definitely fair. I'm studying and living off savings so I don't have much to throw around but at this point I'd probably have more fun subbing to Peony than watching Netflix.

@hj @sampo I do!

@druid @sampo I hope you're not exchanging nudes on discord



















Without me

@hj @sampo We all should be tbh.

@druid @sampo no, not on discord. Matrix.

@hj @druid I'm trying to build a family-friendly brand here, I haven't posted nudes on the internet in many many years

@sampo @druid pretty dressed pics then

@sampo @hj You posted nudes?

@druid @sampo
6f116ec0be60320a03d3d50ad8073cb…

@druid @hj it was before the feddyverse, don't worry about it

@sampo @druid ok

yay!

@sampo @hj I'm not WORRIED, I'm THIRSTY!!

@druid @sampo drink more water
45fbc28d4f2b5b7de7ce031e96f9204…

@hj @sampo NO

I DEMAND PEE

@druid @sampo
d5b3afa6f3c8ddf9b5a684320a76002…

@hj @sampo Watching vtubers gives you a pee fixation. Pomu's blissful faces while peeing....

@druid @sampo
5a893e4791cf61de12fe1af945fc5ec…

@hj @druid if you don't like PP you need to GTFO

@sampo @druid sure. Mute conversation my beloved

@sampo @hj Gura needed notes to remind her to pee apparently, I hope she peed herself on stream. (Wouldn't know, I'm not a holosimp)

@druid @sampo this you?
9d15e1cb4b9c75ce6e3a400d7581a97…

@druid @hj I'm a proud holobrony and I know for a fact that she did, it was shown to me in a dream

@hj @sampo NO

SCAT IS TOO FAR

NOT EVEN ONCE

PLEASE IMAGINE YOUR OWN DISGUSTED SPACE MARINE POSTED BACK AT YOU

@druid @sampo pee is scat

@hj @druid @sampo
> failed to decrypt message
> I sent you my nudes please respond

@druid @sampo also that isn't space marine
aef4c1362dd09828b8779f51ee8109d…

@sampo @hj I want to groom Mumei...

@hj @druid this is just so wrong it hurts

@lanodan @druid @sampo still better experience than XMPP MUCs

@hj @sampo Oh yeah, you're right. That's not even close to being an Astartes helmet, I feel ashamed now.

@sampo @druid whatever, you can keep your scatological tendencies, i'm out of here for good.

@hj @druid @sampo Well XMPP has the problem that almost nobody is using it and clients are like 80% done, meanwhile matrix you have element which is full of bugs and huge pile of barely even 50% done clients.

@lanodan @sampo @hj Exactly, but the unusability of alternatives doesn't stop people on fedi from screaming at the slightest mention of discord. Working on software does something to your brain.

@lanodan @druid @hj it all sucks. the worst part is that no matter which software you use, you will end up chatting with someone

@druid @sampo @hj
> Working on software does something to your brain.

Yeah, definitely does, after all you'd probably care about your craft and what you can do with it.
It's the curse of knowing how something works and having the ability to do a better version of it. Specially with anything libre software adjacent as that allows you to scratch that itch.

And Discord, there's many reasons to not like it, like most software.
Be them more or less taste or some kind of ethics, which people love to annoyingly shove on others.

And Discord has this thing where it's like refusing to use msn/skype/facebook/twitter, people hate it, and unlike xmpp/matrix/… where maybe the other person could fix the bugs, it's not going to be the case with those.

@sampo @druid @hj Yeah, which is why I also get it when people are annoyed you need to create an account to just read/browse.
Like on a forum you'd create an account when you've already been hooked and want to participate.

@sampo Youtube suffers from this whenever I restart the browser (I nuke my cookies and have anti-tracking shit)

I don't want to know about republican this, democrat that, I can self radicalize myself elsewhere. I just wanna watch my autism shit!

@lanodan @sampo @hj I understand these two things aren’t related at all but I liken it to my feelings on Abrahamic religion. I have spent a LOT of time immersing myself in religious study and also did a lot to try and “break” myself and receive revelation etc. I even summoned a spirit to learn from it. I have been obsessed with deboonking Christianity since I was a little boy and that has morphed over time into a feeling that this branch of religions presents a real and present threat, that its deities (there are multiple even if they deny it, the angels for example are deities) are real and harmful.

It’s at the point where I can’t see a single “my brother in Christ” joke or even a particularly Christian Christmas joke without wanting to come in and say “🤓Ackshually…” but the thing is, that doesn’t work because:

1: Most people don’t believe in or care about what I’m saying (just like most people don’t give a fuck about the proprietary software debate) 2: Of the ones who do care about / believe in / understand anything that I’m saying, the chances of them actually agreeing are millions to one, and we will inevitably get into a bitter spat over minutiae (just like how even other techbros will argue about distros and other shit) 3: Of the ones who might actually listen / understand / agree, very few have any understanding whatsoever of how to meaningfully (as in even your deepest dreaming subconscious converts, not as in the usual ceremonial LARP) convert from one religion to another and when asked for details I end up fumbling around for a place to begin teaching an ordinary person elementary magic (just like how even someone like me who is receptive to the arguments of the FOSS community will then ultimately do nothing about it due to the time/learning wall) 4: Of the presented alternatives, none are readily accessible becaue westerners generally have a poor grasp of non-Abrahamic religion and they will eventually hit language barriers studying the Dharma etc. (just like how even telling a newbie to install Ubuntu will create a gigantic project of hassle for them, as the “it just works trust me bro it’s for casuals” gradually desolves into the usual nightmarish driver fiddling and help begging for totally unknown and initially indecipherable terminal commands)

Thinking about this made me realise that my approach is wrong. If I actually want to have a meaningful impact on the world in this way then I am going to have to present myself and what I am saying very differently. I’m going to have to re-learn the mindset of an uninitiated person. Demanding they reach my level of literacy is not practical.

@lanodan @hj @sampo Markdown fucked up the paragraphs but it's not like deleting or editing posts has ever worked correctly (lol) so deal

@druid @sampo @hj Yeah Markdown makes me relies on the preview feature.
BBCode doesn't which is why I tend to use it, neither does HTML but well I've been writing in raw HTML for more than 10 years so I can avoid the traps.

@lanodan @sampo @hj The thing is tho that I just realised I whatabouted myself because at least if a person becomes a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Daoist or whatever there is a whole functional and coherent religion that fulfils their needs for them to learn, whereas no matter how passionate a person is about FOSS, Matrix and XMPP are still dysfunctional

@druid @sampo @hj
> Thinking about this made me realise that my approach is wrong. If I actually want to have a meaningful impact on the world in this way then I am going to have to present myself and what I am saying very differently.

Yeah, no idea when, but I strongly prefer the approach of showing/demonstrating and letting people take the step and show interest.

Like how few times I accidentally made some people interested in veganism by just picking tasty food at restaurant/food-truck/… that they ended up trying and also liked.
To me that's the best form of activism.

And sadly free software is all too often comparable to trying to do veganism by just keeping to the same recipes and skipping the meat.

@lanodan @sampo @hj I like that last line as an analogy a lot lol

You are right, the best way to lead is by example. If you can show a person that your way is superior, that's the most effective thing you can do. I used to think that FOSS had it hard in this regard since the difference isn't immediately obvious to a grandma, but honestly in the modern day you could probably just show someone fedi vs twitter and let them see how much faster things load and how there aren't ads and shit everywhere, or show someone the difference between (for example) Newpipe and Streamfab and let them behold how one of them is a slow laggy janky piece of garbage that begs for your money, opens popups and otherwise behaves like trash, and the other one is fast, lightweight, immediate, and skips ads.

@druid @sampo @hj I don't think foss wins by comparing it to the industry at day1, yet a lot of foss advocates try hard at day1.

Although VLC sweeped out QuickTime/RealPlayer/WindowsMediaPlayer/… pretty quickly. And funnily I wouldn't say VLC has a good UI, like discoverability of features is pretty bad. Almost feels like competition just didn't want to actually compete and just gave up.

But to me foss is something that wins out in the long run, specially against VC-funded software that will eventually go to shit due to investors or acquisitions.
Sadly software maintenance isn't easy, like imagine if VLC couldn't support newer codecs even with a slight workaround like with plugins.

And sometimes it's in a loosing battle, like yt-dlp and NewPipe are in, but it's a needed one until a real alternative shows up (peertube by itself isn't, similarly owncloud is cool but it's too DIY for most, …).

@lanodan @sampo @hj Good point about VLC. That pretty much embodies what I'm saying, because while it's hardly a flashy piece of software it's valued for its simplicity, lightweight nature and the knowledge that you're not installing malware. I think you're right, proprietary competition gave up, and it's because they shot themselves in the foot by trying to make watching videos a Proprietary Experience™ and people got sick of it.

That's the kind of penetrability I'm talking about. This reddit thread is a good example:

https://old.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/1elmlvy/best_webbased_youtube_video_downloader/

It's comment after comment of people saying "try THIS site, it's not THAT bad" and other people saying "It's down" or "It watermarks" or "It doesn't do long videos" or whatever over and over again. Then down at the bottom you have this exchange between people who understand software well and know how to use docker where they bypassed all the struggle instantly.

Imagine if the person had been able to say "You can use metube" without any additional context, and clicking on its github page presented you with binaries, including a Windows one. The whole thread would have been over. None of these people would ever have used garbageware to download videos again. Many of them would probably have had this as their first taste of the technologically liberated side of the internet. But it's all dead in the cradle because normal people don't know how to compile, or what docker is, or what a tarball is, or any of this shit.

It's so frustrating, it would only take a little push. XMPP is a great example because all it would really take is for someone to port Conversations to desktop. But whoever made it only cared about deveoping an Android client, and everyone else is content fumbling because it's what they do all day every day when fannying about with linux anyway.

@lanodan @druid @hj VLC is a good example because it's the perfect case where FOSS can shine: the proprietary competition is bogged down by proprietary BULLSHIT. no codec support, there's no money to be made etc

the flip side of this also explains why proprietary software sometimes wins, eg. discord vs xmpp: the FOSS competition is bogged down by FOSS BULLSHIT

it's all about the bullshit

@sampo @lanodan @hj Exactly and precisely, yes

@druid @sampo @hj Well looking in it, metube made itself pretty much stuck to docker, so now it's usable by effectively just sysadmins and most will hate it.

Which makes no fucking sense but so many developers have no idea how to either ship software to users or have it being shippable to users, would have made sense in the 90's when people barely used computers but these days everyone is stuck with those things.

@lanodan @sampo @hj It did seem like a weird choice, yeah

@sampo bluesky is just gayer twitter. And I mean campus gay.

@sampo @druid
Bluesky /might/ supercede Twitter by virtue of not being in Elon's hands. And Twitter might slowly become a new Truthsocial at the rate it's going.
BS still has some major wrinkles to iron out, though. It's definitely not fedi-esque in its design. Then again I'm not exactly an avid user either. I don't love it, but I respect what others see in it.

@Paradox @sampo Bluesky at least lets me view threads without trying to poz me so there's that

@sampo @Paradox Finally, the internet The Lawnmower Man promised us

@sampo @Paradox @besserwisser Listening to normies talk about Twitter, they're all fed up with the constant abuse and lack of moderation. Things have finally got bad enough that normies are talking about it as a site infested with Nazis where harassment is the norm. I have no idea how much those statements reflect reality, but I've even seen journalists jump ship to bluesky, and they're the biggest click whores of all.

I agree with besser, none of these sites last forever. Look at Facebook, who even uses it anymore except old people? When they die, who will continue to use it? Doesn't matter how much money zucc the cucc pumps into it, nobody wants to use it because everyone knows it is an unusable mess where even boomers complain about algorithmic meddling.

At this point I'm not even convinced in the eternity of YouTube (they can only push insane AI moderation etc. so far, and it's rapidly getting to the point where newbies want to go elsewhere because discoverability is so poor,) Google (it's become fucking useless, again in large part thanks to AI garbage) or Twitch. (They seem to be pleasing people right now but the vtuber hips drama shows that they're one poor corporate decision away from being abandoned.)

Best example I can think of here is Tumblr. Tumblr went from being THE website for wimpy teenagers and soy leftist fujoshi types with morbillions of users and posts to being a ghost town over ONE decision.

@sampo @Paradox @besserwisser I can believe that, sadly. I've met a lot of people who recognised the cycle and got out, though.

@druid @hj @sampo i need a girlfailure!!!

@sampo @druid @hj Now I will worry about it.