jn (big endian energy)
jn@boopsnoot.de
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Although there are things I like about the Plan 9 family of operating systems, I cannot in good conscience promote 9Front.
Among the first commits in the git history was "Added /lib/meinkampf", followed, three months later (with a lot of regular development in the meantime), by "replaced /lib/meinkampf with something more sensible". You'd think this means they removed the nazi propaganda, but no, they replaced it with an english translation.
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the manual page for ns(1), a tool that lists the namespace of a process, to this day states: "46:The name of this tool is reminiscent of National Socialism and NeXTSTEP, it's hard to decide which one is worse", which is at best an incredibly trite attempt at humor.
and it isn't all in the past. the poster for the current release ("clause 15 common elements of maus and star type") is a collage (credited to sl) of a drawing by prahou (whom i respect as an artist), and a photo
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the photo isn't credited. it shows men with shaved heads in cheap, uniform clothing, sitting in shelves. the photo was taken at the concentration prision in El Salvador (CECOT), to which the US has been deporting "gang members".
the "back" side is even worse: just straight up nazi shit, namely the table of "Markierungen der Häftlinge", signs that prisoners in the Nazi concentration camps were forced to wear.
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@jn at worst you get actual nazis, at best you get fans of an incredibly annoying person (rob "i don't use syntax highlighting because colors are for children" pike), plan9 just ain't worth it
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SuperDicq
SuperDicq@minidisc.tokyo@jn That shouldn’t be of any concern. I believe 9front is free software, meaning that the developers have no power over you.
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Within the /lib folder, 9front contains plain text copies of The Manifesto of the Communist Party, the Constitution of the United States, and many other highly important documents that have immense historical importance and so deserve a place in the official documentation of the operating system.
https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki/9front
Mein Kampf is a disgusting text but it is historically relevant. Still it was replaced and also the other stuff you mentioned has also largely been changed in later versions.
When Plan 9 was developed at Bell Labs, it wasn’t like this, this nazi shit (that no amount of “nazi punks fuck off” can paint over) is a 9front addition.
A lot of former Bell labs people are working on 9Front, you do understand that community efforts have different social norms than corporate ones?
You really seem like these peculiar people that struggle to build something great but excel at dragging others down. If you seriously think that neo national socialists are working on 9Front you are completely out of your fucking mind and consequently wrong on anything you ever said ever in the past, present or future
@p get a load of this
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MOVED TO @halva@mk.absturztau.be
halva@labyrinth.zone
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Sally (evil)
sally@freesoftwareextremist.comYou don't understand, they put book I hate, I must hate them!
Even the commies read and share that book, Mein Kampf is one of those works that commies have and read to make fun of the guy, I've got several Marxist collections from my commie days and that book was included in most of them so that you read it and either laugh or cringe at the deluded shit the guy wrote. It's specially funny how much he hated commies, remember that part where he's waiting at some train station?
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I noticed that there there are many source files missing copyright headers, which could be a problem if the license is not listed anywhere or there is no license.
I found several references to proprietary software, as there are drivers that try loading proprietary software, meaning 9front is not a free OS, as it doesn't respect the users freedom.
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pistolero
p@fsebugoutzone.org> Mein Kampf is a disgusting text but it is historically relevant
Yeah; it was put there as a joke, but it is worth noting that historical revisionists make all sorts of claims that Hitler never hated Jews and never intended to get rid of them, etc., and they bank on people never having read Mein Kampf. If people don't know who Hitler was, then Hitler can be anyone that the situation requires him to have been: censoring history make it possible. This is why repressive regimes censor history.
Aside from that, once you burn one book, any book, you're a book-burner. Some societies can survive only when information is censored: the easiest way to avoid living in such a society is to prevent censorship.
> A lot of former Bell labs people are working on 9Front, you do understand that community efforts have different social norms than corporate ones?
This is my issue with these people: they want the entire internet to have an HR department.
> If you seriously think that neo national socialists are working on 9Front you are completely out of your fucking mind
There was that guy that was harping on 9front for using a picture of Aushwitz to represent Ruby on Rails (which is funny and also a perfect representation of Rails; I don't care what anyone says). The guy turned out to work for a defense contractor and got kicked out of the Nix conference and cancelled and whatnot. A friend of mine at a different conference was talking about this and I said to him that the guy was over-zealos probably for the same reason Ice Cube said "Don't let it be a black and a white one"; I forget the phrase I used but he got the joke immediately. People that are overly eager to cancel other people are often loud about it because they are paranoid that they will be cancelled, too.
nwa--fuck_the_police.mp3
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Captain Ahab
rape@shit.poster.place@p @jn @dagda Um actually Hitler was a good Midwestern American boy who just wanted to be left alone, restore the civil liberties of white people, and ensure everyone had their own sovereign nation they could have a right of return to and be happy in. Even the Slavs. Especially the Slavs. Nothing nefarious going on there. In fact, Mein Kampf is basically just reinforcing the Bible. Idk German but I'm pretty sure Lebensraum means "world peace, especially with Slavs"
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IMO, the Big Shoah was nothing but the Allies bombing all the roads making it impossible to transport food to the work camps. It’s why the allegations of Holocaust don’t crop up until several decades after.
It isn’t “History” if the purported horrors weren’t discussed or published until much later.
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> Just out of the positions of power and influence in Germany.
This hardly explains what happened to the Polish Jews. Stephan Banach was employed as a "lice feeder" because he wasn't allowed to do physics after Warsaw fell. This isn't like Hong Kong Cantonese resenting the Han, this is several steps past that.
> nothing but the Allies bombing all the roads making it impossible to transport food
We have lost mathematics because, although Stanislav Lisniewski died before the Nazis got to Warsaw, they burned his notes because it was Jew math. The modernist concept that progress is both inevitable and linear meant that if a Jew had discovered something and you burned his notes, it was only a matter of time before a German discovered the same thing, so the math books would have a German name if you burned the Jew's notes and drafts. Same thing with Deutschephysik and Heisenberg getting declared a "white Jew".
> It’s why the allegations of Holocaust don’t crop up until several decades after.
The Nuremberg trials were approved during the summer of 1945, right after V-E Day, and started November of the same year. If there is doubt about what it was called, that's news to me but if something happened, it's not very important what it was *called*.
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> Nothing about lampshades
The lampshade stuff was a hoax and the guy (one might call him a Jewish version of Ernst Zundel) that made the claims has admitted that it was a hoax; the rest of it was more or less understood from the beginning, as there wasn't an iron curtain. And you have things like the Kristallnacht, where exactly the "pretend it never happened" line was used. Hitler met with American reporters the morning after, as they had a scheduled visit anyway, and just refused to address it. The obfuscation and blanket denials were part of the strategy from the beginning, and it's tedious to discuss. We're not going to agree, and even if we did, what does it get you?
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[GRLC] DOL-001
novenary@akko.wtfShow content
I now believe that this whole thing is misleading
it doesn't really seem like 9front is or ever was a fascist project, the community rather seems pretty left-aligned with a somewhat puzzling sense of humor
allegedly, mein kampf was put in so it could be removed rather than as an endorsement, which is a pretty weird way to make a statement
https://mastodon.social/@CyReVolt/114664679728525590
the FQA seems to corroborate this in "Why did 9front stop making fun of Nazis?"
https://fqa.9front.org/fqa1.html#1.3.0.1
there are more examples of such crude humor that have since been removed, such as an image comparing ruby on rails to auschwitz
evidently they still seem to be doing some of it as seen in the current release poster and "back cover" which are at https://9front.org/releases/2025/04/26/0/
that aside, the collection of banners at the bottom of the homepage is pretty clearly leftist, if still very strange (see the combination of the USA and Ukrainian flags), even their favicon is the progress flag
so is 9front run by weirdos? yeah, definitely
but are they nazis? eh, not really
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kitten@social.vlhl.dev
kitten@social.vlhl.devyes they added a stupid thing to their tree in 2011, then realized their mistake a few months later and took it out. this is such a nothingburger i can't even.
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[GRLC] DOL-001
novenary@akko.wtfShow content
the back cover even has an image from Maus in the corner (which is named in the release title)
idk, it's a very crude way to deliver the message but it's hard to interpret this as pro-fascist if you take the time to think about it, which I'm pretty sure is intentional
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💙🩷💜Brett🐡🍉🐧
brettm@swarm.coiloptic.orgShow content
eg see "The Nexus Between Far-Right Extremists in the United States and Ukraine" https://ctc.westpoint.edu/the-nexus-between-far-right-extremists-in-the-united-states-and-ukraine/
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[GRLC] DOL-001
novenary@akko.wtfShow content
it feels like it's part of their generally provocative aesthetic but I don't really know what to make of it
the image itself is a link to a ddg search for a book about Soviet military ops but I don't really understand the point they're trying to make with it
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💙🩷💜Brett🐡🍉🐧
brettm@swarm.coiloptic.org
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UsernameSwift 
usernameswift@pleromer.net
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kitten@social.vlhl.dev
kitten@social.vlhl.dev
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UsernameSwift
usernameswift@pleromer.net
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(C11)
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@novenary to add to this, the back cover is an example of art intending to make you uncomfortable. (my interpretation:) the back cover is blatant enough to A. drive away corpo types and B. make you stop and think about what's going on. it's to make you go look around for context, to notice the photo behind the drawing in the front cover, to go look for more context in the 9front site if you haven't before. @jn does directly juxtapose analyses in https://boopsnoot.de/@jn/114664245655054406, but they don't draw a connection that where the US is going with deportations to nasty prisons is fucking bad. the political situation should make you deeply uncomfortable too. if you want friendlier art with your hobbyist operating system release from a weird community, the drawing in the front cover is still there. they also name-drop Maus in the release title and reference it again in the back cover.
the 9front folks want you to think.
as a bonus, anyone who goes through this will have a better set of expectations for interacting with the community if they decide to do so. even in non-political matters, 9front's public communications are often meant to not go down smooth. a bit of brutalism, a bit of adverserial design, and some unabashed weirdness.
also, if they are a bunch of fascists currently, they're sure leaving a lot of room to have their messaging read as distinctly anti-fascist.
for a final note around Why did 9front stop making fun of Nazis?, it reminds me of ex-channers who have noticed The Problem with chan culture and taken reasonable steps since then but also haven't buried their past. i personally don't expect to ever hang out in the 9front community, but the folks seem chill.
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@novenary actually looking at the front cover drawing more that could also be a 9front-y interpretation of the CECOT photos so i may have also gotten skill-issued here, with calling the drawing "friendlier" still missing things. great job me.
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jn (big endian energy)
jn@boopsnoot.de
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jn (big endian energy)
jn@boopsnoot.deShow content
This blew up a bit. I got many replies, ranging from harassment and gore to pretty thoughtful ones.
So, what's my problem? I think jokes and art based on fascist materials make space for those who genuinely enjoy these materials.
I wish the release collage came with a paragraph stating what is obvious to many but not all: It's a fucking disgrace to deport people and rip them out of their lives, and if we don't watch out we'll be reliving the 1940s faster than we're prepared for.
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[GRLC] DOL-001
novenary@akko.wtf
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