@june y'know what
I'm not going to argue with someone who is openly supporting incest
That's it, you lost all your credibility

@june I'm sorry but if it's mentioned in https://lgbtqia.wiki/wiki/Harmful_Terminology#Paraphilic_Terminology you don't really have a say
It's just Bad, period.

@june What the fuck are you on? WHAT YOU'RE PROMOTING IS LITERALLY ILLEGAL.

I'm not even queerphobic, you passing literal incest at it was fine and making shit up about me and this wiki I used is just... weird and fucked up

For fuck sakes, get out of fedi if you can't understand where YOU are going

@stilic @june you know what else is illegal?
women driving in saudi arabia
legality is not a metric of morality or ethics or righteousness
I'm not even sure if it's illegal where she is or not.

@wyatt @stilic @june

> women driving in saudi arabia

this is not the case anymore as of like 6 years ago I think

@wyatt @stilic @june step off the femboy, he's right incest is bad regardless of legality/illegality in the same way as drunk driving is bad regardless of legality

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @wyatt @stilic @june Who does it hurt that two adult siblings are fucking?

@chjara @wyatt @stilic @june it's a social safety law, maybe the two adult siblings fucking have a perfectly healthy functioning relationship with no intention of having kids (I don't know, i don't know either of them), in the same way that there are some relationships between adults and children that may be healthy or someone might be really good at drunk driving and never get into accidents, but the vast vast majority aren't and these laws forbid these things for a reason. For God's sake, everybody on here starts acting like some rothbard libertarian or a damn anarchist the second any idea of law for the overall health of society rather than individual niche cases gets brought up on here.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @wyatt @stilic @june Social safety *in what way*. There is a very obvious and extreme power dynamic between an adult and a child, which makes it effectively impossible for a sexual relation to not be rape. Drunk driving is bad because you're operating a two ton steel box while your brain is half shut off. Sure. But two adult siblings? Power relations are not that much different from say two childhood friends, between which relationships are certainly accepted. Also, sexual relationships (not marriage) between adult siblings are actually legal in most countries.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june @stilic @wyatt Alternatively, if you're going by genetic closeness: if everyone was in homosexual relationships, society would collapse. Non-argument. It takes multiple generations for deleterious effects to arise, and most people have a biological aversion towards dating their siblings (hence the taboo!), but for those who don't, whatever.

@chjara @june @stilic @wyatt everybody on here has a completely atomised view of society in which only they and their experiences exist, everybody's doing the thatcherite "there is no society" thing constantly but in the real world the vast majority of 'actually existing incest' is incredibly bad for those involved and the overall social fabric.

@chjara @wyatt @stilic @june

Homosexual relationships dont inherently harm anyone, they're functionally just the same as celibacy at the level of government, having a kid in an incestuous relationship is open and shut child abuse, in a similar way that excessive smoking and drinking while pregnant is child abuse but worse ofc.

BBC article on the effects of first cousin marriage, not sibling marriage in the UK: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c241pn09qqjo
Channel 4 documentary about the kids of cousin marriage in the UK from about 10 years ago: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gDGUZxUTwBI

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @wyatt @stilic @june Does not mean individual experiences do not exist. If the harmful cases are taken by other norms, there is no reason for a catch-all norm which also includes non-harmful cases.

@chjara @wyatt @stilic @june the case isn't that op is necessarily a bad person for being in an incestuous relationship itself (as said before I don't know them or their relationship), but that pushing for the legalisation of incest is bad as i said before. In the same way that a theoretical person who's really good at drunk driving and never makes a wrong move deciding to go drunk driving is morally fine.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june also if you read a little bit about the similar issue of genetic sexual attraction (attraction to kin that didnt grow up together, without the westermarck effect or a similar effect for parents and children) people who actually have sex with their family member typically find it impossible to have a healthy relationship after

@chjara @june @stilic @wyatt even beyond actually having kids, there is a very different power dynamic between an elder sibling and a younger sibling than there is between two friends of the same age gap, yet again this is not saying that it is inevitable (because apparently someone being the exception to the rule on here means it doesn't exist), the point is that it's far more likely to be harmful to someone than just not doing it. Also the vast majority of irl incest is between a guardian / older relative and their adult kid, not between 'completely smooth sphere in a vacuum' twins with perfect consent etiquette.

@chjara @june @stilic @wyatt everyone on this site is dogpiling a 19 year old for saying 'incest is bad and harmful' because he did an appeal to authority and a "mansplaining". Sorry MFs, the femboy's right — Ayn-Randians DNI!

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @wyatt @stilic @june They lost an unrelated argument and went "and anyway if you look at this MOGAI wiki it says incest is ILLEGAL!!" it's silly either way.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @wyatt @june

> bri*ish person

you don't get to have opinions about this just like the frenchie

also, extremely myopic and western/christian view of this whole topic

as I have become fond of doing, I drop a reply like this and mute the thread :3

@chjara @wyatt @stilic @june how is bringing up that he did an appeal to authority under my post about how he did an appeal to authority relevant? You're just repeating me as if that makes him wrong. Sorry I hate to say it, but the MOGAI wiki is right and you're wrong - It's not "silly either way" to say that incest is bad just because one uses a logical fallacy, mf you are the one here arguing for completely abhorrent positions just because the opposition is "cringe".

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @wyatt @stilic @june Most of the incestuous relationship that are inherently harmful are inherently harmful in other ways (like, pedophilia). Making adult sibling incest illegal - which, again, it already isn't in many countries! - doesn't really add anything meaningful to that. When it comes to interpersonal relationships, I'd say it's best to be on the lenient side, humans remain individuals with individual relationships.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @wyatt @stilic @june I said it's silly either way because it was completely unrelated to the running conversation.

@Clover @wyatt @june why should i even engage with you as a serious person if we're just going to do a "muh christian morality" and then mute me? Newsflash guys but the abolition of the slave trade was also "muh christian morality"

@chjara @wyatt @stilic @june this is ridiculous, there is a serious comorbidity of incest with harmful things, yet again if we're only to ban things that are very directly harmful rather than things that have a very obviously foreseeable knock on negative effect should we legalise drunk driving? After all, drunk driving harms nobody in of itself, it's hitting people that harms them. why not just legalise drunk driving and criminalise running people over?

@Clover @wyatt @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june I hate to be this girl when I’d argue for incest any other day but don’t tell people not to talk for being French >< the French are chill and while I don’t like the English most of them are chill god

@OneRatOneVerySmallTrenchCoat @wyatt @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june I can’t believe I’m being admonished for my Anti-White racism what has this place come to 😔🥀🥀🥀

I think both of them are being silly, therefore the nonserious reply, since I do not do debates anymore

and I’ll have you know I actually have many french friends (I hope for them to get better eventually (the joke is that that’s not how it works))

also the context for the french comment is that I made a post earlier asking “where does this guy get his confidence to be anti-incest from when he’s french” alluding to the french stereotypes etc

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @wyatt @june you shouldn't, I'm basically just saying that I think you're being silly and will not elaborate further, this network is for shitposting :3

@chjara @wyatt @stilic @june it was very directly related to the conversation, just a bad argument, and it's completely dishonest to claim the dozen odd people in this thread arguing that incest is actually fine are only responding to a poor argument.

@Clover @wyatt @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june I think you should be nice to the French :< and not imply they all do incest … as a treat you know

@OneRatOneVerySmallTrenchCoat @wyatt @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june the french can take a little ribbing every now and then, they made me learn their language in school because of all the colonization afterall

@Clover @wyatt @june i think flooding the zone with thought terminating cliches, and then selectively going "well this place isn't for arguing anyway" when someone says incest is bad (but never when people say incest is good seemingly) is bad

@Primavera @Clover @wyatt @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june god forbid I have hobbies

@Primavera @Clover @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june @wyatt I just like the French a lot okay

@OneRatOneVerySmallTrenchCoat @wyatt @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june @Primavera struggle session because some of us like the french a little too much ;p

@Clover @wyatt @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june @Primavera getting my head chopped off at the struggle session for talking about French poetry

@Clover @wyatt @OneRatOneVerySmallTrenchCoat @june

> "where does this guy get his confidence to be anti-incest from when he’s french” alluding to the french stereotypes etc

having your country flooded with far right and new left incestuous pedophiles who used all the arguments in this thread and better to argue for their cause tends to make people dislike incest and pedophilia

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june people with genetic defects are more likely to pass those on than incest causing them yet they're allowed to have children

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @wyatt @june

> i think flooding the zone with thought terminating cliches

this was funny so it's valid, never miss a chance to be anti-white racist

> and then selectively going "well this place isn't for arguing anyway"

have you seen me argue on here in the past six months? no, my subjective personal view is that this place is for shitposting and blogging, therefore, I will not be engaging in highly intellectual debate

> when someone says incest is bad (but never when people say incest is good seemingly)

something about a shred of the true form in the false form or whatever

> is bad

moralising smh can't believe you'd resort to this in our highly intellectual debate, what's next? ad homonim? appeal to authority? this is a slippery slope.

@snacks @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june there is no realistic and humane way to prevent people with genetic disorders risk passing those on to their kids, i should know i have a fairly minor one, on the other hand its extremely easy to minimise the risk, for instance encouraging them to have kids with one of the tens of millions of people in this country they're not directly related to rather than the dozen or so they are, in the same way that they can be encouraged not to drink a glass of wine and smoke a pack a day of cigarettes.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june you could just as easily make it illegal for people who express a genetic defect to have kids overall. I don't see how that'd be hard

@snacks @chjara @june @stilic @wyatt genuinely are you being intellectually dishonest about this on purpose or are you just retarded?

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june question goes back to you

@snacks @wyatt @stilic @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june Wide spectrum genetic sequencing before you're allowed a shagging loicence.

@snacks @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june and is asking people not to smoke during pregnancy also a slippery sløpe to eugenics just like asking people not to fuck their cousin?

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @snacks @wyatt @stilic @june Genetic depression from one generation of closely related people having a relation is effectively 0. It only becomes a problem over multiple generations.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june is asking people with cystic fibrosis not to fuck that hard?

@chjara @snacks @wyatt @stilic @june if youd read the article id linked you'd see that *first cousin marriage* (not sibling tbc) controlling for location, ethnicity and income *doubles* the rate of genetic disorders from 3% to 6% as well as harms the kid in a host of other ways too

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @snacks @wyatt @stilic @june The article later mentions it could also just be because it's a small endogamous community. (And I do question the emphasis on a specific Pakistani minority community by the BBC yknow.) Eg Ashkenazi Jews also have that one degenerative disorder they have a sky high rate of due to the same thing.

@snacks @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june there is nothing to do within a moral liberal society to reduce the likelihood of a person with cystic fibrosis from passing on the condition to their kids, and they have the right to kids, banning someone from having sex with a dozen or so people out of tens of millions in the country is not the same as chemically castrating a person with a genetic condition. Is telling people not to drink, smoke and take drugs a slippery soykafe to reduce the likelihood of birth defects eugenics too or is it just incest that we need to protect?

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @snacks @wyatt @stilic @june I feel like I've said all I want to say and just want to comment on slope -> soykafe. Lmao.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june where do you go to jail for drinking during pregnancy?

@snacks @chjara @wyatt @stilic @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june just read this entire thread anyways, drinking and smoking during pregnancy is ofc not illegal, but, it is irresponsible and i would be morally against it, if i was a woman.

incest is mentally ill tho, but, so long as it's not reality then i dont really care at all for whether people are into it i always just assume when people are talking abt "incest", they are referring to their friends as siblings, which, obviously doens't cause inbreeding or anything harmful like that.

@dps910 @chjara @wyatt @stilic @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june nono, this thread was started by a person in a relationship with their sister. The eugenics argument against incest just doesn't hold up in our society

@snacks @chjara @wyatt @stilic @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june well if it's their actual sister then it is wrong and they should get help

@chjara @snacks @wyatt @stilic @june the reason it focuses on the pakistani bradford community in particular is because it's the largest sample size of incestuous relationships in the uk, bradford has the most incest cases in the uk per capita by a long way and its almost entirely from the pakistani community despite them being a minority in the city. And regarding the bit about ashkenazi jews, there are almost more pakistanis in bradford alone than jews of any nationality in the entirety of Britain (they're also mostly middle to upper middle class so not in a population strata at risk of cousin marriage), to bring up a jewish population unprompted that isnt nearly as widespread in britain or as likely to inbreed to whatabout out of reality is basically just antisemitism.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @snacks @wyatt @stilic @june My point is that's what happens in small endogamous communities in general, there are plenty of countries where first cousin incest is accepted but when outbreeding happens within the context of the society of millions of people it dilutes the effect of one generation of incest. It's not incest that's the issue.

@snacks @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june you don't go to jail for having sex woth your cousin either, its still morally wrong and child abuse, so yes both should be punished if it helps decrease the frequency of it happening, and if punishment doesn't help, whatever alternative pathways are most effective at reducing the rate of it happening should be pursued to stamp both out

@chjara @stilic @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june not sure i buy the "most people have a biological aversion towards dating their siblings" thing

I've never had an interest in dating my brother but i dont like guys so it was never really on the table even

@wyatt @stilic @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @stilic @june
these are same-sex sisters, they aren't about to have kids

@wyatt @chjara @stilic @june my position on this is that its bad regardless of whether it results in kids, i assumed i wouldn't have to argue with multiple people saying that actually incest is fine even if people knowingly cause their kids to have life long genetic conditions because they couldn't be bothered to date one of the tens of millions of people not directly related to them (and then i had people start claiming unprompted that i was racist for not adding a disclaimer that jews are worse (they aren't, the claim they are is entirely made up)).

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @wyatt @stilic @june When did I say Jews were worse? I gave another example of general endogamy being the cause of genetic bottlenecks.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june @stilic @wyatt The Amish have high rates of a certain recessive disorder as well, because they are a small endogamous community. The overwhelming majority of non-European societies accept first cousin marriage, and they're genetically doing just fine, because incest is not common enough in comparison to the scale of the society in any case to cause significant gene pool depression.

@chjara @wyatt @stilic @june

You're shooting out loaded questions about racism in the study and asking why it brings up pakistanis as opposed to another disproportionately incestous population despite that population being far less widespread, less concentrated and less likely to commit incest as if they're a more appropriate for the study. How am i supposed to read that other than you twigging out about the study not bringing up jews living mostly in london in it's article about Bradford.

@chjara @wyatt @stilic @june

> The Amish have high rates of a certain recessive disorder as well, because they are a small endogamous community

so is this you agreeing with me that inbeeding is harmful or what?

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @wyatt @stilic @june Yes, inbreeding, on multiple generations within a small community, is bad. Individual instances of incest otherwise are meaningless.

@snacks @chjara @stilic @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june
ignoring the whole "eugenics" component of this it annoys me how we're talking about this like the act of *dating* is intended for sexual reproduction when it very clearly isn't the case here

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @stilic @june
I hate ayn rand and am glad she's dead, but you need to get off your high horse.
if you were more familiar with these two you hopefully wouldn't be so fast to let society brutalize them

@wyatt @chjara @stilic @june

I don't know these two or particularly care to, you are also shouting right past me, i have never tried to brutalise them / let society brutalise them. On the contrary, the call to legalise incest is a call for the legalisation of the widespread brutalisation of women and children not yet in the womb by patriarchal forces in their own homes.

@wyatt @chjara @snacks @stilic @june as stated before, this part of the thread isnt me responding to people claiming that incestuous dating itself is fine, but responding to people making the ridiculous claim that having children from incest is morally fine.

@wyatt @chjara @june @snacks @stilic

Also this is *eugenics* in the same sense that saying smoking while pregnant is bad for the fetus is eugenics.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june >Eugenics is a largely discredited set of beliefs and practices that aim to improve the genetic quality of a human population.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @snacks @wyatt @stilic @june Smoking or drinking in pregnancy directly causes measurable harm to the baby. Incest *amplifies* existing genetic defects, but if the rate is already close to 0 anyway, it's still close to 0 after *one* instance of it.

@wyatt @chjara @june @stilic but tbc on the ayn rand thing, hate her all you like but you pushing the idea that policy for the good of society as a whole shouldn't exist in case it imposes the will of the individual in certain niche cases is fundamentally a randian concept

@snacks @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june is the idea that smoking is bad for fetuses discredited now?

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @wyatt @stilic @june Nobody here is advocating for abolishing drunk driving or seatbelt laws, but that a specific kind of relationship (adult sibling incest) is effectively harmless and does not provide any real positive effect to being outlawed, compared to the even minute harm it causes.

@snacks @chjara @wyatt @stilic @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june HOW DO YOU GET TO THIS FROM A SYSTEMD SERVICE OP.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june telling people who to fuck to improve genetics is just the most standard eugenics ever while smoking during pregnancy doesn't change anything about genes

@mischievoustomato @chjara @wyatt @stilic @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june read the ops bio

@snacks @chjara @wyatt @stilic @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june im usually live and let live but man, stuff like this makes glad im part of the fat right. muting this.

@snacks @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @june @stilic @wyatt it probably has epigenetic effects like alcohol does

@chjara @snacks @wyatt @stilic @june

In a first cousin marriage (controlled for class, location and ethnicity) the rate of speech and language difficulties in the kid is increased by 53%, the likelihood of reaching the population average intelligence is 16% lower, the number of doctors visits as a young child increases by 37% and as said before the rate of genetic disorders doubles —this will all be far higher between direct siblings, every aspect of the child's life will be harder than if they were born in normal circumstances regardless of whether it gets bad enough that they are diagnosed with anything. Many smoker babies won't have any genetic conditions, they'll just be less intelligent, less fit, more prone to cancer later in life than if their mother had never opened a packet of cigarettes.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @snacks @chjara @june @stilic @wyatt I'm replying to this so you all get tagged.

You let a SystemD thread get derailed into a debate about incest. You all got FUCKING BAITED into wasting clicks on rehashing stale arguments about things that don't matter in the first place. Ten years ago people who wrote text walls about two-sentence posts were rightfully ridiculed for letting the trolls' five-second copypasta leech an hour of their time and now you are alternating sucking each others dicks and getting in a pissing contest about who loves French people more. If you had any sense you would take a baseball bat, destroy your computers, go outside, and fuck off of this federated bifurcated echochamber. It'd make it better for the rest of us.

@snacks @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june i also think people shouldn't fuck animals for health reasons, is that eugenics too?

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @snacks @wyatt @stilic @june people shouldnt fuck animals because its rape tbh

@3 @chjara @snacks @stilic @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june nah i have fun laughing about people taking this seriously

@snacks @chjara @june @stilic @wyatt also smoking during pregnancy does literally change people's genes, it is explicitly eugenicist by your definition to prevent the mother doing damage to her kids DNA https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3581096/

@wyatt @chjara @snacks @stilic @3 @june yes i take this seriously because widespread incest is one of the most horrible forms of patriarchal violence regularly enacted on women growing up in cultures where its common, it's utterly abhorrent to defend it.

@wyatt @3 @chjara @june @snacks @stilic its like laughing about people taking russian law to allow wifebeating seriously. Throughout the vast vast majority of human history incest has been used as a patriarchal disciplining tool against young women within the home, it's only in a very recent blip that it's become taboo and then banned within a small section of the world and now everyone on here's acting like it's the actions of a tyrannical state to ban it.

@3 @chjara @june @snacks @stilic @wyatt

> However, research has shown that 10-20% of children who live through incest become victims of rape by a family member (Langan and Harlow, 1994). Most rape victims in the United States are traumatized before the age of eighteen, and 29% of those rapes occur before eleven.
> Of child rape victims, 11% are abused by their genetic fathers, and 16% are raped by other relatives. There are no statistics on how many women commit incest with their children.
> Incest between a father and son is under-reported, and the prevalence of incest between a parent and their child is difficult to estimate because of the secrecy.
> Boys who adult family members molest have solid psychological responses such as denial, anxiety, dissociation, and self-mutilation.

@3 @chjara @june @snacks @stilic @wyatt incest in the UK has been banned for ~70 years, for the ~6,000 years prior of civilisation on the british isles incest was the way of the world and people are proposing a direct return to this.

@mischievoustomato @snacks @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @june @stilic @wyatt fat right lock in

@3 @snacks @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @wyatt @chjara @june @stilic the irony here is that you also got ragebaited into writing the Bible in response to this

@3 @hannah @chjara @june @snacks @stilic @wyatt i don't particularly care if you "pity" that i find it incredibly disturbing that people on a supposedly "feminist" instance are advocating for the decriminalisation of the primary route that child sexual abuse happens along and pretending it's feminist or anarchist or queer rights or anti-racist or whatever to try to push forwards more ways to normalise rape culture. If there was a large thread of people saying it was epic trans rights fuck the state that wifebeating was being decriminalised on here I'd react the exact same way.

@june stepping on femboys is very fun and rewarding tho… makes them squirm~

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @hannah @june @snacks @stilic @wyatt finally got around to reading this you should spend another hour drafting your reply

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @wyatt @june @stilic drunk driving is literally fun

@fujoshi @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @june @stilic @wyatt youre late. party's over, everyone already went home

@3 @chjara @hannah @june @snacks @stilic @wyatt i lowkey get why ciswomen dont feel safe around people like this in their bathrooms, i certainly wouldn't feel safe around men with your views in my bathroom

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @3 @chjara @hannah @june @snacks @stilic @wyatt oh my god we get it, you want to tap the femboy, you don't have to be transphobic to people to do that.

@fujoshi @FiringSquadsEnjoyer @3 @chjara @hannah @june @snacks @stilic @wyatt hey guys what's up it's me molly

@fujoshi @3 @chjara @hannah @june @snacks @stilic @wyatt i assume the average cis man with these positions is a rapist (either of the deeply religious or pornbrained variety), i assume the average trans woman with these positions is a misguided neolib anarchist having her views mainly dictated by an incest fetish as a coping method from trauma / just being pornbrained, i assume the average cis woman with these positions is deeply religious and/or a grooming victim trying to rationalise it.

I have no opinion on the femboy except that a teenager being bullied and dogpiled by a group of hyper online adults for being cringe and saying that its good that the most common source of child rape is banned.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @3 @chjara @hannah @june @snacks @stilic @wyatt why should you dictate how people cope with tauma?

@fujoshi @3 @chjara @hannah @june @snacks @stilic @wyatt
I'm not dictating it, it's whatever if someone has an incest fetish regardless of whether its trauma based or not, its a bit offputting to bring it up in public but its just an idea in our theoretical pro incest persons head. When someone says society has to be changed in a way that will relegalise the historical norm of millenias of terrorising children in the household in order to accommodate their sexual fetish then i have a problem.

@fujoshi @3 @chjara @hannah @june @snacks @stilic @wyatt

It's also very obvious that the majority of pro incest people in this thread do have an incest fetish bcs of the frequent amount of siscon and incest fetish posting thats been done by many of them separately over the time ive been on here and that there's horny incest fanart higher up in the thread.

@FiringSquadsEnjoyer @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june Was there any call anywhere to allow nonconsent? You're conflating things there.

@lispi314 @chjara @wyatt @stilic @june

Late reply but yes, the call for allowing incest is one that will inevitably result in child sexual assault just one step removed, the majority of the people in this thread are either unable or unwilling to grasp second order effects but it will inevitably happen just like putting trans women in mens prison is a clear advocacy for the mass rape of incarcerated trans women.

Extract from another comment:
> but yes, we cant really conceive of incest without child molestation / grooming bcs at every level its inextricable, even between a fully consenting mother and son both of age there's a lifetime of grooming in advance of it happening. Between a sibling and a younger sibling too, the plurality of self reported csa cases are of underage kids having sex with and then raping another underage kid usually a younger sibling, with the legalisation of incest it just becomes a case of hiding it until adulthood, and then revealing their "new" fully legal relationship to the world. iirc i laid this out at some point in the thread but buried behind a load of other replies.

[edit: the law is not telepathic or omniscient, it cannot know what led to a 'legal' incestuous couple in their childhood, it might be completely normal or it may be drenched in grooming and abuse, the blanket criminalisation removes the motivation for grooming and cover ups in the first place]

And an extract from another comment left by someone else replying:
> from a 2003 article *Incest: A Feminist Core Issue that Needs Re-politicizing* (https://rapereliefshelter.bc.ca/incest-a-feminist-core-issue-that-needs-re-politicizing-2/) it points out that the pushback on the 'medicalist and amerian normalization of this topic' ambiguates patriarchal assault practices. usually it is 'normal fathers' that will begin doting on the child more and more when they are fighting with their mothers as a way to 'get back' at them.
>
>> "In fact, this trap set for mothers is unexplainable except as terrorism – these mothers are bearing the brunt of the rage that is out there at women who commit the sin of naming men the offenders.
>>
>> And so the subject of incest is now permitted speech. But the issue – the naming of who is doing what to whom and why – is not permitted speech. This is implicit in the model of social response – to speak of the “horrors of incest,” while adhering to a policy that sets greatest store in protecting nice middle class men’s reputations. I hope it is not too cynical to suggest also that endless “treatment” for an unending stream of survivors is quite capitalism-compatible."

[Edit 2: a large part of this thread also fixated on people claiming incest wasn't that bad or wasnt bad at all for the children of incest, or even that it was eugenics to not repeal the laws criminalising incestuous births. To knowingly engage in a practice that drastically increases the likelihood that a child might be born disabled for life, mentally stunted or with rare diseases, etc is as bad as beating the child once they're born to the point that they'll be disabled for life, it's clear child abuse and brutalisation]