Conversation
Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
a couple years ago lunduke documented that gnome redirects money donated to develop GNOME Desktop into left wing charities and untraceable consultant payments. always accuse your enemies of what you're doing.
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@sun Wouldn't surprise me if DHH was doing something sketchy like that considering how shitty omarchy is, but then again there are people out there who actually use Ruby on Rails so there's no accounting for (lack of) taste in computer systems
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@sun nobody accuses omarchy of redirecting donations into left wing organizations. that would actually be a good thing
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@condret@fedi.absturztau.be @sun@shitposter.world very true!
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@condret even if you agree with the charities it's misappropriation of funds and laundering
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@sun@shitposter.world @condret@fedi.absturztau.be did gnome actually do that tho i dont really trust lunduke anymore
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Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
@anemone @condret neither of them are really misappropriation of funds nor laundering, in both accusations they are colloquial and mean "spent money on things that aren't publicly traceable or are not really related to the code". the difference today is that lunduke actually did document it with references and accusation against omarchy, even if plausible, did not
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Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
@anemone @condret in both mozilla and gnome there are money paid to contractors and if you try to find out more about the contractor it leads to like, address of empty house in new jersey for example. could be real sole proprietor contractor. more likely people are slipping in payments for no work to friends, not necessarily "politically nefarious".
I don't trust lunduke either, he's deceptive, but in the past things he did he at least came with receipts.
I don't trust lunduke either, he's deceptive, but in the past things he did he at least came with receipts.
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@sun@shitposter.world @condret@fedi.absturztau.be fair. I have no love for gnome or mozilla
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xianc78@gameliberty.club
xianc78@gameliberty.club@sun I think both sides are in on it to destroy FOSS.
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Nicholas Conrad
nicholas@aklp.clubThe mozilla fellowships have always been for research into censoring wrongthink and garbage like that, plus didn't they spend multimillion dollars putting on a "feminist, decolonization conference" and were all like 'no we forced all our employees to attended, so it's technically just a staff retreat!'. Plus they don't even call themselves a software company anymore, they are now officially "a global crew of activists"; they proudly proclaim themselves to be first and foremost a political organization. I don't follow gnome's exploits, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if they have similar practices in discretionary spending.
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Dumb Idiot Retard
idiot@shitposter.world
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Dumb Idiot Retard
idiot@shitposter.world
@sun I'm like three out of eight-ish sections into a rant blog on why free software sucks now and I can't tell if it's even worth my time to include commentary on Omarchy at my own peril. DHH is one of the perpetual boogeymen of these people, and if they don't want to hear "you're making the computing experience worse," they certainly won't want to hear "the dude's a fucking poseur why are we making semi-weekly seethe blogs to post on lobste.rs about him to give him all the attention he wants?"
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Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
@idiot I don't have much commentary on dhh or omarchy other than as far as I can tell he hasn't said much that a giant portion of the country doesn't consider that controversial, but greatly bothers people that want a very strong progressive tech monoculture.
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Dumb Idiot Retard
idiot@shitposter.world
@sun This distribution could've been a shell script and this cancel culture could've been a hundred-reply soyjak edit hellthread mocking him on fedi.
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johnny peligro
mischievoustomato@0.5dollah.click
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@ageha @idiot @sun people like him who developed systems and frameworks in the 00s era look like idiots because the 90s disconnect between academia and people-who-just-wanted-to-get-things-done was still very hard
this also applies to ruby itself, nowadays it's trivial to be aware of cutting-edge runtime and compiler methods with a bit of work even if you choose not to use them, back then everything was black magic outside academia
this also applies to ruby itself, nowadays it's trivial to be aware of cutting-edge runtime and compiler methods with a bit of work even if you choose not to use them, back then everything was black magic outside academia
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@whiteline @idiot @sun
don't remember 00s that way. was still outside uni chatting on fora and searching things, but feeling was "hardware constraints gone but people piling garbage on garbage, so still no performance gains. need to care about these things
the oop craze was strong, but felt that was more eminating outwards from academia rather than reverse, students pushed on java early and adopting python and ruby because of that
don't remember 00s that way. was still outside uni chatting on fora and searching things, but feeling was "hardware constraints gone but people piling garbage on garbage, so still no performance gains. need to care about these things
the oop craze was strong, but felt that was more eminating outwards from academia rather than reverse, students pushed on java early and adopting python and ruby because of that
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@ageha @idiot @sun oop emanated outwards from undergrad courses because it was what businesses wanted
and yes garbage on garbage was because people didn't have access to better methods even though research existed, functional programming craze that started in the early 10's was first catalyst to break this mold
and yes garbage on garbage was because people didn't have access to better methods even though research existed, functional programming craze that started in the early 10's was first catalyst to break this mold
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@ageha @idiot @whiteline Java is shitty bit it was infinitely better for enterprise software than C and C++, that is an objective fact.
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@whiteline @ageha @idiot I was doing common lisp at uni around 2000 and it wasn't as capable as Java.
Java had a massive for the time standard library and full gui toolkit.
Java had a massive for the time standard library and full gui toolkit.
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@sun DHH just hates brown people but he lives in the UK and has lot of middle eastern rape gangs
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@toiletpaper @sun no we are literally Nazis because this is a free speech instance
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Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
@snacks @idiot @whiteline @ageha nobody wants to hear it but fresh university graduates could shit out working software very fast in Java and it wouldn't have the basic security and memory issues that plagued C programs.
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Snacks
snacks
@sun @idiot @whiteline @ageha i just couldn't think of an actual joke about everything in java being an object that relates to your post
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@sun @ageha @idiot common lisp is very much not what i mean, SBCL is a very stupid compiler actually even though it is very full featured and worked out for what it is, standard is also frozen in time in the 90s and at the time was largely reliant on proprietary extensions to get anything done (now community projects like alexandria and others sort of fill the void
when i say fp craze i mean the massive impact haskell had on people in that specific slice of time
when i say fp craze i mean the massive impact haskell had on people in that specific slice of time
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バツ子（台風に倒されない
ageha@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
@sun @snacks @idiot @whiteline
students i knew definitely couldn't, brittle template generators barfing incomprehensible things and layers of "enterprise ide" preventing people even learning version control
students i knew definitely couldn't, brittle template generators barfing incomprehensible things and layers of "enterprise ide" preventing people even learning version control
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@ageha @snacks @idiot @whiteline I think I'm a bit older than you, none of that existed for several years until after I graduated. We were coding Java on MC68K macintoshes with a couple megabytes of RAM.
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Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
@whiteline @ageha @idiot @snacks OOP is bad if you're a good programmer and good if you're a bad programmer.
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Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
@whiteline @ageha @idiot @snacks Java code will, like COBOL, likely keep running correctly for 50 or more years, which arguably makes it one of the best languages in existence inn terms of utility, even if it's ugly.
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Snacks
snacks
@sun @idiot @whiteline @ageha it isn't even that bad, stuff like fat structs is very similar, you just need better control of how they land in memory and not go wild with inheritance
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Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
@snacks @idiot @whiteline @ageha also contrary to popular opinion it is not even really that slow. It's certainly a lot faster than ruby on rails. It was ass-slow when computers were still double megahertz
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バツ子（台風に倒されない
ageha@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
@sun @snacks @idiot @whiteline
yeh, this was like 2011. students were encountering java like this and graduating without ever learning anything
in the 00s though was around bunch of teens teaching themselves, and "why does everything have to suck so much, oop garbage pile" was consensus there. go release got them excited
yeh, this was like 2011. students were encountering java like this and graduating without ever learning anything
in the 00s though was around bunch of teens teaching themselves, and "why does everything have to suck so much, oop garbage pile" was consensus there. go release got them excited
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Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
@snacks @idiot @whiteline @ageha yeah I have experience across the entire spectrum of Java code. enterprise is sometimes literally insane. But you can write beautiful elegant Java code. rxJava or like, Vert.x is quite nice to work with.
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@ageha @snacks @idiot @whiteline around 2004 it was all Java EE and SOA and it was insane bloated shit, yeah.
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Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
@ageha @idiot @snacks @whiteline I worked on an insane framework called broadleaf once, literally suicide-inducing
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@sun @snacks @idiot @whiteline @ageha it is slow as molasses. ruby on rails isn’t even a low bar, it’s absolute rock bottom. luajit is faster than java, especially on non-x86. neither has any hope of keeping up with gcc/g++
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@sun @snacks @idiot @whiteline @ageha (modern C and C++ are also not what they used to be and shitting out working stuff got much easier)
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Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
@mia @snacks @ageha @whiteline @idiot in absolute terms it is quite slow but I think its way better than Python, which people regularly put up with (but shouldnt)
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@sun @snacks @ageha @whiteline @idiot python is insanely slow, yes.
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@sun @snacks @ageha @whiteline @idiot honestly i’m a lot more excited for C29 because it’s getting so much good stuff that’ll make code safer and more elegant while the C++ committee prefers to add more reasons for senior devs to slap junior devs on the wrist
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Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
@mia @snacks @ageha @whiteline @idiot people really good at cutting edge C++ are telling me that if you're judicious with what you use you can do really great stuff. I just plain don't want to learn Rust tbh.
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Dumb Idiot Retard
idiot@shitposter.world
@mia @snacks @ageha @sun @whiteline Technically I've had my compilers set to -std=c2y all year. Technically, I have to read sheepblog to tell you what that even does. I'm basically writing C11 with more bloat.
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@sun @snacks @ageha @whiteline @idiot same. which is why i double down on C to the point that i will use GNU-only extensions if they help
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バツ子（台風に倒されない
ageha@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
@mia @snacks @sun @whiteline @idiot
un, few big issues just inherent to c, but modern c dealing with nearly all small things i ever had to complain of it, very cool
un, few big issues just inherent to c, but modern c dealing with nearly all small things i ever had to complain of it, very cool
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@ageha @snacks @sun @whiteline @idiot my biggest issue with C is libc. the language is pretty solid
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@ageha @snacks @sun @whiteline @idiot it’s this unfortunate combination of inflexible (e.g. only one memory allocator) and poorly designed 80s-era crap (everything about locales, signals, i/o primitives…)
which is also unfortunately just how posix works. the syscall interfaces are already shit and there’s not much libc could do to make them less ugly.
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@mischievoustomato @mia @idiot @sun @whiteline @ageha learn c# instead and have a borrow checker experience that's not like pulling teeth
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@snacks @mischievoustomato @idiot @sun @whiteline @ageha it’s so funny how rust is like some bastard child of webshit and fp languages. you have async on one hand and borrow checking on the other hand, and if you touch both parts it just screams KILL ME IT HURTS TO LIVE
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johnny peligro
mischievoustomato@0.5dollah.click
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バツ子（台風に倒されない
ageha@tomo.airen-no-jikken.icu
@mia @snacks @sun @whiteline @idiot
a c-like with modern namespacing and modules, nice types and type inference (explicitly bypass-able for low level suppose), a few syntax tweaks around e.g. function declaration to make fun pointers less pain, and yeh stdlib that's organised well (like elixir or janestreet ocaml) + nicer threading and io
would be pretty ideal language for me
a c-like with modern namespacing and modules, nice types and type inference (explicitly bypass-able for low level suppose), a few syntax tweaks around e.g. function declaration to make fun pointers less pain, and yeh stdlib that's organised well (like elixir or janestreet ocaml) + nicer threading and io
would be pretty ideal language for me
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@mischievoustomato @mia @idiot @sun @whiteline @ageha c# is garbage collected by default but you can just do (sane) checked borrowing. I think that actually helped me learn how to properly use the stack for memory management in c-likes. On the other hand you can't do some borrow gymnastics that are possible in rust but by now i think doing those was never a good idea in the first place
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@ageha @snacks @sun @whiteline @idiot namespacing is coming, less painful function pointers are coming. modules? we have modules at home (pkgconf)
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@ageha @snacks @sun @whiteline @idiot use meson and it’s gonna be less painful than any language with modules and package managers
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Zanzibart, forgive me...
newt@stereophonic.space
@mia @snacks @ageha @sun @whiteline @idiot @mischievoustomato nah it's mostly fine. Explicit pinning had to be developed, but that was coming anyway due to self-referential structures being a thing.
I wish C++ also had it, because the current C++ meta for those is to either T(T&&) = delete; or to write a fat boilerplate with a chance to shoot yourself in the ass.
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Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
@ageha @idiot @mia @snacks @whiteline incidentally the only C I still do right now is still fiddling with Gameboy Advance, which is just SO MUCH FUN! Currently figuring out how to swap arbitrary functions in and out of fast 32-bit RAM from ROM, which requires either the functions have no absolute addressing, or be compiled a dozen times for different virtual slot locations.
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@sun @mia @snacks @idiot @whiteline
ok yeh, seems seeding too much to oop brain
※ceding
EDIT: e.g. i do not want even "methods" and "constructors" turning everything into a.bB("floob").c spaghetti
ok yeh, seems seeding too much to oop brain
※ceding
EDIT: e.g. i do not want even "methods" and "constructors" turning everything into a.bB("floob").c spaghetti
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@sun @ageha @idiot @snacks @whiteline GBA hacking is how you learn to love ARM assembly
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@sun The concept of transparency (openness) is lost upon the FOSSbros, apparently 
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πρωτος
protos@tsundere.love
@snacks @idiot @sun @whiteline @ageha java doesn't even let you do otherwise, no unions means only inheritance for polymorphism, among other ways it forces OOP
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Max Mustermann
maxmustermann@shitposter.world
@sun @whiteline @ageha @idiot Then they had to come up with swing before the customers started to run away. Python is partly garbolium too, but at least its easy to do most stuff in it. There is still nothing that beats C as horrible people say the ++ components are.
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@ageha @snacks @idiot @sun @whiteline Version control was some sort of fantasy creature at the university I've found myself in. Enter like 6 years after I had to drop out and I've experienced a trade school project going up in flames, because the guy who made most of the program didn't bother to push his work that only existed on his flimsy consoomer laptop onto the GIT repository provided by the teacher. The only thing that survived was the fucking ICS integration I have written.
Untested in context of the full application of course.
Untested in context of the full application of course.
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Max Mustermann
maxmustermann@shitposter.world
@sun @mia @ageha @idiot @snacks @whiteline Python only got where it is now, because it is resembles written English, tolerates all kind of bullcrap from its user and is way faster than normal PHP if written properly. This is how In think Django could make its breakout. Its just neat to write stuff with it.
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πρωτος
protos@tsundere.love
@snacks @mischievoustomato @mia @idiot @sun @whiteline @ageha borrow checker being le bad is either outdated from before lifetime inference or just skill issue, "a mutable reference is the only reference" is a really simple rule
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