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@technicallydifficult your gort intrigues me, wodk. go on.
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@salt
Okay. This is gonna be long. My view of Christianity is like that of the Ebionites. Or more specifically, the Neo-Ebionites. My actual religion agrees with their position on the Biblical exegesis, but is not the same as Ebionism.
Ebionites do not regard Paul as an apostle, but rather as a heretic. My own faith tends to see him as an influential but problematic figure, but uses softer language.
We have 26 pages to go over and I need a nap.
But the thesis statement is that:The first major leaders of the Ebionites were James and Peter. the Trinity concept is not supported in the source text and that Jesus (peace upon him) is a prophet, not a god or demigod, or part of a triumvirate god.
I keep falling asleep, please remind me in around 8 hours.
Okay. This is gonna be long. My view of Christianity is like that of the Ebionites. Or more specifically, the Neo-Ebionites. My actual religion agrees with their position on the Biblical exegesis, but is not the same as Ebionism.
Ebionites do not regard Paul as an apostle, but rather as a heretic. My own faith tends to see him as an influential but problematic figure, but uses softer language.
We have 26 pages to go over and I need a nap.
But the thesis statement is that:The first major leaders of the Ebionites were James and Peter. the Trinity concept is not supported in the source text and that Jesus (peace upon him) is a prophet, not a god or demigod, or part of a triumvirate god.
I keep falling asleep, please remind me in around 8 hours.
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@technicallydifficult @salt are you norf african?
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@salt
Paul and Marcion and those with them effectively created the heresy that Jesus (puh) was the "good god", while saying that the Actual God was the bad guy in the bible. This idea was propagated with the publication of the book Antithesis, and then subsequently the Biblical Cannon for the followers of this heresy. Which was basically just the writings of Paul, and nothing else. I have the Marcionite Cannon on the shelf, 0/10, I'm sort of sorry I bought it. It consists of 2 parts: The Evangellion, and the Apostolicon.
It is worthy of note, that most Evangelical Protestant Christians believe in this heresy in whole or in part. And oddly, have never heard of how it got started, and they heard it from their pastor. This idea was considered wrong like 10 years ago, but now it is mainstream in the US.
I present the book, Adversus Marcionem. By Tertullian of Carthage, Father of Western Theology:
https://www.tertullian.org/anf/anf03/anf03-28.htm
I do disagree with Tertullian on some things, but his very apt takedown of dualism, Trinitarianism, and the other areas of this heretical movement which has been considered influential since Nicea, is very good. And for his dedication to Tawhid, I hope he is granted Paradise.
Ebionites do, in fact, count as Muslims. Since they believed in One God (most high) and Jesus (peace upon him) as a prophet. That's Shahadat. (bearing witness). They didn't eat the unclean things that Greeks and Romans did. Part of conversion was reciting the Sh'ma, and then being baptized. And Jews, Ebionites, and some other early Christians were waiting in Yathrib in the 600s CE. Why is some random town in the Hejaz chock full of Christians and Jews in a place that is otherwise dominated by pagans?
Because of Isaiah 42. The Kedarites of Sela, referred to the settlements of Arabs around a hill in Yathrib around which the village was built. The hill is still called Sela, but now that little village is called Madinah.
Isaiah 42 is not about Jesus, and if you look carefully at it, it can only be about one person, and it is obvious if you read the Seerah for comparison.
(I need to eat, this is the introduction, I have 3 notebooks of notes on this topic. Ask away.)
Paul and Marcion and those with them effectively created the heresy that Jesus (puh) was the "good god", while saying that the Actual God was the bad guy in the bible. This idea was propagated with the publication of the book Antithesis, and then subsequently the Biblical Cannon for the followers of this heresy. Which was basically just the writings of Paul, and nothing else. I have the Marcionite Cannon on the shelf, 0/10, I'm sort of sorry I bought it. It consists of 2 parts: The Evangellion, and the Apostolicon.
It is worthy of note, that most Evangelical Protestant Christians believe in this heresy in whole or in part. And oddly, have never heard of how it got started, and they heard it from their pastor. This idea was considered wrong like 10 years ago, but now it is mainstream in the US.
I present the book, Adversus Marcionem. By Tertullian of Carthage, Father of Western Theology:
https://www.tertullian.org/anf/anf03/anf03-28.htm
I do disagree with Tertullian on some things, but his very apt takedown of dualism, Trinitarianism, and the other areas of this heretical movement which has been considered influential since Nicea, is very good. And for his dedication to Tawhid, I hope he is granted Paradise.
Ebionites do, in fact, count as Muslims. Since they believed in One God (most high) and Jesus (peace upon him) as a prophet. That's Shahadat. (bearing witness). They didn't eat the unclean things that Greeks and Romans did. Part of conversion was reciting the Sh'ma, and then being baptized. And Jews, Ebionites, and some other early Christians were waiting in Yathrib in the 600s CE. Why is some random town in the Hejaz chock full of Christians and Jews in a place that is otherwise dominated by pagans?
Because of Isaiah 42. The Kedarites of Sela, referred to the settlements of Arabs around a hill in Yathrib around which the village was built. The hill is still called Sela, but now that little village is called Madinah.
Isaiah 42 is not about Jesus, and if you look carefully at it, it can only be about one person, and it is obvious if you read the Seerah for comparison.
(I need to eat, this is the introduction, I have 3 notebooks of notes on this topic. Ask away.)
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@salt
Ordinarily, when I give dawah to Christians, I have to meet them where they are and use what they know, as well as draw on testimony and writings of their own early church fathers. The delays were caused by literally falling asleep, followed by it being Friday.
I obtained a lot of my Christian education by attending a Christian school, but also from reading scholars. I highly recommend the works of Dr Bart Ehrman, and Dr Ali Ataie when it comes to New Testament and comparative religion. Where comparative studies are concerned with Ahl ul Kitab in general, the trio Adnan Rashid, Abu Zakariya, and Zakir Hussain wrote a fantastic book called "Abraham Fulfilled" which shows the Christian and Jewish corruptions and brings receipts for proof.
Ordinarily, when I give dawah to Christians, I have to meet them where they are and use what they know, as well as draw on testimony and writings of their own early church fathers. The delays were caused by literally falling asleep, followed by it being Friday.
I obtained a lot of my Christian education by attending a Christian school, but also from reading scholars. I highly recommend the works of Dr Bart Ehrman, and Dr Ali Ataie when it comes to New Testament and comparative religion. Where comparative studies are concerned with Ahl ul Kitab in general, the trio Adnan Rashid, Abu Zakariya, and Zakir Hussain wrote a fantastic book called "Abraham Fulfilled" which shows the Christian and Jewish corruptions and brings receipts for proof.
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