hey @fiore can we get an onion address? i want to log in via tor browser

@ug no <3

@fiore is it because I had a bad harry potter take?

@ug what’s the take

@fiore it’s seriously not hard to do in nginx

@ug amuse me , try to comr up with a half sensical reason for why i should ever do that

@fiore it is just a more secure way to log into something, your users wouldn’t have to worry about you knowing where they’re logging into form, or other identifying information, and any third party who might hack your server wouldn’t have that information like ip logs

someone still would have to still log in to use the site, it’s not like you’d be allowing anonymous tor users or something

@ug me logging ip addresses should be the least of your concerns when you trust me enough to make an account on here , trust me

if the db leaked , youd probably have much worse shit to worry about

i feel like social media is in general very antithetical to opsec . it would be misleading for me to provide people with the false illusion of privacy like that

and in any case , you can already use tor to access the site , i dont see why id need an onion domain to do that

@fiore @ug i trust tor more than TLS but the false illusion of privacy is an insightful argument

@hipsterelectron @ug people will install tor and feel like opsec demons

@hipsterelectron @ug and then post pictures of them in their home city online

@fiore @ug i also have spent an immense amount of time thinking about anonymous networking and tor makes a few architectural decisions that are antithetical to it

@ug @hipsterelectron > wants privacy
> openly talks about the specific situation he is in

like , you see how thhose two are antithetical , right?

and i dont understand why not having a onion domain would matter but to be fair i have no idea how tor does dns so like . whatev

@fiore @ug i don't believe it's actively backdoored nothing so direct and i do believe their crypto is solid but cryptography has no real theory of anonymity yet

@hipsterelectron @ug german police owns tor

@fiore @ug i'm also not quite familiar with service discovery of .onion domains

@fiore @ug i thot they owned matrix everyone i know on tor seems like they're for real. the guardian project is totally fucked though

@hipsterelectron @ug german police owns a shit ton of nodes

@KaiserKitty @fiore @ug surely brendan eich internet genious will protect me

@ug @hipsterelectron wtf??? are u for real???

you have not come up with a good reason for me to do it , other than “they say its better than just using tor”

and im pretty sure your dns goes through tor normally so like i have no idea what youre talking about at all

@loji am i wrong about dns over tor or am i being a stinky poopy

@kimapr @ug @hipsterelectron potato potato

@fiore @ug one of the two major architectural issues is that tor trusts all nodes equally. classic failure

@ug @hipsterelectron afaik thats the real main usr of .onion domains

@ug @hipsterelectron like , you do know that federation will still happen on the clearnet , yes?

@ug @fiore i don't like i2p either and i don't know anyone who works on it. tor is a local maximum but i trust the team that's more than i can say for signal after their new cryptographer came in last year

@ug @fiore i don't believe i ever said not to use it i contributed to libsignal when they still had moxie there i just refuse to sign off on something that doesn't meet my standards for what people want it to do without providing my criticism along with it. i think an onion service is probably a good idea and hearing that it's actually simple to set up is news to me and changes my understanding of it

@ug @fiore i also think it's the kind of public support that helps cryptographic projects gain more widespread acceptance among the public and this counterbalances the concern about said false sense of security

@hipsterelectron @ug worm dot pink adopting tor will CHANGE THE WORLD !

@ug @fiore perhaps it's not clear but i have an incredibly negative view of basically all crypto and tor is really good i'm just pissed off at the state of the field

@ug @hipsterelectron yes but youre still vagueposting about what good that would do . over just connecting to akkoma via tor normally

@ug @fiore i also think said false sense of security is more problematic if the cryptographic claims of the system are undermined by its use outside some very specific context but from my understanding providing an onion service is a cryptographic anonymity feature that serves users to provide and the abstract concern about users sharing info on social media is not only kind of nihilist but completely unrelated to the increased security provided by an onion service

@ug @hipsterelectron i love taking 10 minutes to load a 10MiB picture on my akkoma timeline

@ug did you know that tor has exit nodes, and you can just visit normal websites through it

@fiore @hipsterelectron

@fiore @ug if you're worried about people making fun of you by association i think that's a really bad way to make decisions which impact your users. it's only embarrassing if you make it embarrassing. it's not like literally anyone will be able to find out unless you give them the URL that's kind of the point

@hipsterelectron @ug thats not what im saying

what i am saying is that i will not go through the trouble of running a hidden service (something that would only benefit me, not my users) just because a user has been told that supposedly its better #opsec for him too

@ug @hipsterelectron “noticeably” is debatable, and even then most of the time will be going into loading media, and sincd we dont have media proxy enabled that means youre still loading it from the other instances directly , no hidden service there . so like , it wouldnt matter

@ug @hipsterelectron i am , what’s your point

@fiore @ug i don't buy this

@ug @fiore why would you attack me like this

@ug @hipsterelectron all these things are true and also the effort required is orders of magnitude larger than what youd actually gain from it

@ug @fiore i definitely did not understand enough how it would work before this conversation and given all my posts trashing json-ld i'm glad fiore is one of the few fedi admins who appreciates the mess w3c has gotten us all into and appreciates the capacity for surveillance inherent in the protocol

@ug @fiore literally zero of the opsec demons on fedi know a goddamn thing about that

@ug @fiore opsec angels

@fiore @ug rly pedantic but that still links users of the onion only to those other servers via an exit node (which still kinda requires some work) and not yours. one concrete problem i suspect this would address is:

• user posts something evil NSA jackoffs don't like at 8:52pm US Eastern time
• evil NSA jackoffs review packets sent to your server's IP around 8:52pm

TLS leaks packet size and timing unless you support HTTP/2 (i think HTTP/3 is literally just signal double ratchet with the header backdoor) so it's possible that the act of logging on to your server could be identified without decrypting TLS, as well as sending a post, and that could be sufficient particularly if said evil NSA jackoffs continue looking to correlate later packet sends with posts from the same user

@hipsterelectron @ug yes but YOURE STILL BEHIND TOR oh my god . i almost fell for this except that no , youll have a different exit node each time so yoire still anonymous .

but i like this game , opsec whackamole

@fiore @ug just so we have a threat model in mind

@ug @hipsterelectron i know thats the actual reason yoi want it , and thats why im pushing back

@ug @hipsterelectron (ai generated graf) Welcome to the Fediverse

@FagMode59er @ug @hipsterelectron it does not happen, no

your client does however send requests for media to other servers directly, but like ??? thats just normal ???

@FagMode59er @hipsterelectron @ug and no , people usually do not go around logging all the ip addresses that ping their website , that would be stupid

@FagMode59er @ug @hipsterelectron this is not federation , the medja is on that server , where else would you be fetching it from

this is like going on a website and it embedding a picture from another site , its just how the <img> tag works , its a normal web thing

@FagMode59er @ug @hipsterelectron tgat wont change anything for you because using akkoma with tor is like shooting yourself in the asshole repeatedly with a shotgun

@snacks @ug THE FIRST ACTUALLY GOOD REASON

@ug @FagMode59er @hipsterelectron media proxy means keeping around a lot of media which means running instances becomes more expensive

@ug @FagMode59er @hipsterelectron wdym “my cat picture has malicious code” this shit is magical thinking you have no clue what youre talking about

browing the web is NOT secure . any website can basically do rce on your machine for free . images load from remote servers and cdns all the time . this is not special to the fediverse

@coolbean @FagMode59er @hipsterelectron @ug ahem

gemini solves this .

@yakmacker @FagMode59er @ug @hipsterelectron yea acting like me as a website admin can do anything about this means that you want to put a tiny bandaid on a blown off leg and like no im not doing that , it would mean running an additional service with admin burden and overhead and keeping up with tor security updates , whicj are always very critical . it is not trivial to run a hidden service , but sure the person who barely knows what a hidden service is for should tell me that im just lazy (which i am btw)

@yakmacker @FagMode59er @ug @hipsterelectron thts not how we do things, thats how things usually break around here

maybe if we move to a decent distro witha decent packaging model i may even consider it

@ug @FagMode59er @fiore @yakmacker TOR BIDEN SERVICE???