MacKenzie Wark said if you study Marxist dialectical materialism deep enough you either reject dialectics or materialism, (and that rejecting dialects is the correct call), and I keep finding myself agreeing that dialectics is fundamentally flawed, but I'm also skeptical about "the system of objects" how much what we know of interpreting the reality of material relations is pre-limited by the unstable nature of how we know what to know and think.

@0utside0utsider lol I was just writing some notes last night on a Deleuzian take I'm cooking up on dialectical materialism

@nyx oh word?? Radradrad i've been calling something I'm trying to puzzle out into a piece of writing "dream materialism" but I keep falling into this or that rabbit hole of analysis while trying to work it out lll

@0utside0utsider yuo see this all relates to the neoamazonian triple goddesses and triads. a territory is produced in the triangular diagrammatic between two points on a plane which previously was an undifferentiated feral wilderness

@0utside0utsider @nyx the most interesting take on this sort of thing i've encountered is "chinese magical materialism" which draws on confucian and daoist ritual, alchemy, then ties it to modern material production in industrial China

@ink @0utside0utsider this sounds super based (I've been thinking about Taoism a lot lately and want to read the Tao Te Ching soon)

@nyx @0utside0utsider the guy that introduced it to me was a native american guy at a Halloween party raised in a syncretic occult household and he researched like east african black magic, daoism, taught philosophy and metaphysics at a state school, far out but very edgelord guy

@ink @0utside0utsider he sounds kinda based in like a Coldsteel the Hedgeheg way

@ink @nyx I'd be very interested in reading about this, especially since my very cancelable take is that the development of the fusion between taoism and confucianism in the song dynasty leading to (what gets called) neo-confucian was a counter reaction to taoism proper and practically one of the most advanced fascistic ideologies developed

@nyx but what produced the conditions of the plane??? What produced the bound conditional of a relationship between points???

@nyx @ink the tao te ching is very provocative, particularly deeper in, I truly think any study of taoism needs the contributions of zhuangzi to be really well rounded

@0utside0utsider generally speaking, the two points are two wills and the line is produced by one will exerting its force over another the dialectic -- point A, the Same, and Point B, the Other -- is an imprecise analysis of this because it takes the mere appearance of things that is produced by this diagrammatic for what they actually are and then thinks of everything in terms of proximity between different points

>what produced the conditions of the plane?
the plane is P in Deleuze's diagram for the Bergsonian cone of memory. I will need to refer back to that section to describe it with better rigor (which I wanna do anyways when I annotate Bergsonism) but the way that I think of this is continuous vs discrete time in signal processing. "continuous time"/the plane P is infinite and the idea of a discrete plane (a territory) is produced by moving through different points in the triangular diagrammatic between the points

@0utside0utsider @ink this is helpful because I have very little idea of what to read regarding Taoism other than the classic texts

@nyx @0utside0utsider @ink just dont look at daoist sexual alchemy its all semen retention and have sex with 14 year old girls

@nyx @0utside0utsider daoist alchemical practices are neat to look into
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Processing_(Chinese_materia_medica)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waidan

@georgia @0utside0utsider @ink I've already got the sexual alchemy covered by being an ascetic femcel nunmaxxer

@georgia @0utside0utsider @ink actually I'm not an ascetic at all aside from the being celibate part. I should become a vegan to truly asceticmode

@nyx @0utside0utsider @ink woaw so based

@nyx @0utside0utsider @georgia i've recently been mulling over the considerations for consuming and working with animal products for cauldron chemistry stuff I think a long term work around is producing animal tissue sans a nervous system

@0utside0utsider now, what does this mean for de- and re-territorialization you might ask? in diagrammatical materialism, we draw a line between heterosexuality and the concept of "straightness" to denote a material relation between point A and point B: the Same of male subjecthood and the Other of female objecthood. the subject, point A, exerts its will in a linear fashion on point B, but if this situation were reversed it would change the direction but not the essential form of the line (which is why we cannot understand matriarchy as being a mere reversal of roles). we call a relation between point A and point B where one traverses from one point to another in a nonlinear fashion being "queer": there is still a flight from A to B, but it is a witch's flight.

reterritorialization is the process of lines being straightened out, and deterritorialization makes them crooked, but then this raises an additional question for diagrammatical materialism, the most radical one: to arrive at the most contracted point between the two lines, the mediating angle S, and to create a loop from B to B (the simulacrum), a new triangle within the other that returns B to a state of feral undifferentiation where it can exert its will and produce its own entirely different territories.

@0utside0utsider you might also say that a diagrammatical materialist (anti)praxis in which B acquires the self-knowledge to utilize S to produce its own lines of flight is doing magik (as u/acc used to say, antipraxis is about "do what thou wilt"). all magik is essentially the production of a mobile army of abstract war machines that are able to move over temporarily constructed territories.

@nyx @0utside0utsider this is similar to a half-baked idea i've had in my head for a bit about mapping the re-/de-territorialization processes onto the triple aspects of the divine feminine (largely deferring to the Shaktiist tridevi) in a capital-M Materialist kind of way, but i'm probably too illiterate to do it any degree of justice in writing lol.

@rowb1t @0utside0utsider it's really interesting that anyone else has had these same thoughts lol

@rowb1t @0utside0utsider omg I didn't even know Shaktism was a thing wtf this is awesome

@nyx @0utside0utsider @georgia @ink do it

@nyx @0utside0utsider my thought was to align Mahasaraswati the creator and Mahakali the destroyer with reterritorialization and deterritorialization respectively, and then Mahalakshmi the preserver with an Other/Outside, the three points exerting force (or Will, as you mentioned in another comment) on each other. Mahalakshmi was associated with the outside for no reason other than intuition and that i enjoyed the apparent irony -- like i said, pretty half-baked.

@rowb1t @0utside0utsider I'm reading about Shaktism right now and it resonates so much with things I've been working on for Neo-Amazonia, except I'm coming from a different context ofc. it actually helps a lot and inspires confidence that there's a serious living tradition in the East that has a very extensive body of scripture that centers the divine feminine

@nyx @0utside0utsider this is why i usually defer to vedic / early hinduism when i'm researching this sort of thing (despite not being a practicing Hindu in any form). so much of the written corpus is intact and unadulterated, and at least in the vedic era is essentially pagan (as it is typically understood) in nature.

@rowb1t @0utside0utsider I've read something before by the person who runs libraryoflilith.com (or maybe this was when I emailed them) about how they recommend looking to the East and to Kali especially to better understand the true nature of Lilith (i.e. in a context of European and Middle Eastern religions). because in the west we've largely lost any living tradition and primary texts on the worship of the divine feminine, and it commonly leads to people either having a bad understanding of it that is ultimately stuck in within a patriarchal way of thinking (a lot of "goddess feminism" and Wicca comes to mind here). or worse it leads to people appropriating the image of the divine feminine (male occultist bros do this shit a lot).

@nyx @0utside0utsider > when I annotate Bergsonism
hell yeah i would read this immediately