@threalist @sj_zero @p @cjd @h4890

I work with an infosec-related website and am looking for articles on why infosec, the internet, and "hacking" are bullshit these days to use in content for the site. Any ideas?

I wouldn't say infosec is "bullshit." I'd say a lot of people in those fields are NOT developers, and they lack a true understanding of what security techniques are actually versus beneficial versus those that tick a box on a checklist (CrowdStrike was always a garbage security nightmare from the moment I saw it; and I constantly raised concerns and no one cared because "compliance.")

SHIELD certification was talked about a lot ~2012 and a lot of people in the security sector were against any type of certification, because it's just so pointless. There was a panel discussion about SHEILD form 2012, but Ruxcon pulled the video for some reason. I'd put it on catbox, but it's 950Mb.

One of the most iconic images I remember for a security conference was Travis Goodspeed's talk on packet-in-packet injection, because of the following image titled "Encapsulation."

Software is built on layers, and even security is designed in layers that are intended to create isolation as well as redundancy. The trouble is that very few people can describe, in any reasonable level of detail, everything that happens in a single HTTP request.

Modern security exploits are often a single strap in these layers. No matter how much everything else is locked in, one bad link could cause everything to come crashing out on the motorway.

@amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @threalist Oh, man, you should ask @ins0mniak , I bet he has a stack.

@h4890 @p @cjd @sj_zero @threalist
@djsumdog
@Leyonhjelm

It's a non-profit site on infosec topics, not designed to make money, but needs an infusion of energy.

@djsumdog @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

Good point about Crowdstrike. I raised the same objection to a number of ideas, including password managers. All citadels can be breached; centralized the citadel, and you make a one-step strike a victory.

@h4890

The value is sometimes the host instead of the data. Could use it in a botnet or to infect people who came to get your meatloaf recipe

@amerika @djsumdog @p @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

We all remember the recent event where half the earth crashed because a security company sent an update, and there was an event earlier where solar winds had a bad cert that allowed bad actors to access dozens of companies carte Blanche.

Trusting an info sec company that can write to your network is bullshit. If these companies cared about security they wouldn't allow data to be sent back and forth like this.

Kaspersky antivirus just installed a while new antivirus to all their us customers without asking permission. This is all evidence that infosec is bullshit because it you get into infosec companies you get privileged access to tons of critical networks.

@sj_zero @p @h4890 @cjd @threalist

Not to mention Antimalware Service Executable paralyzing half of the Windows machines on Earth half of the time they are running!

@Leyonhjelm @h4890 @amerika @cjd @djsumdog @sj_zero @threalist Yeah, people go for the low-hanging fruit for botnets, though. Mirai basically ate the entire world by just stacking up lists of default passwords and random exploits.

For example, a bunch of shit coming in from Iran ahead of the missile strike. That's kind of interesting, you know, you can see something's going to go down but you can't tell what. But if half your ssh brute-force attacks in a day come from .ir, something's popping off in .ir.

If you're trying to get data from a secure network to a less secure one, there's a device called a data diode which can't be hacked traditionally because it can only send signals outward and not inward. Think of a fiber optic cable where you only have a transmitter on one side and a receiver on the other, or an AM radio -- you can't hack the radio station no matter how you turn the dial on your am radio because the info only moves from the station to your radio. Contrast with a 2-way link into a secure network from a third party.

@h4890 @sj_zero @amerika @cjd @threalist You can do it in software with just routing. Drop incoming UDP/ICMP/etc., drop incoming SYN packets, just drop everything *except* ACKSYN. Then on one side of the network, it cans end out whatever packets it wants, it can establish connections (but only send data down them, not receive any), and on the other side, the only message that can be sent is the second step of the TCP handshake.

@p @amerika @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

I mean not really any articles off the top of my head but I have several theories.

Mainly there are a lot of gatekeepers making money of certifications that at the end of the day install a false sense of knowledge and confidence to those who get them.

Garbage distros like kali or parrot have a lot of automated tools that people will use and not exactly understand, so it's a point and fire situation. I mean if you can't set up your own box that you're fucking useless. Like honestly, if you don't know what a fuzzer is doing don't use it. (not you, like people in genreal)

Most schools are diploma mills so people who go that route have an inflated sense of superiority. Enjoy the debt dummies.

Moar gatekeeping. Like, most places now want at least a 4 year computer science degree which is dumb, theres nothing a classroom will do if you cant learn it yourself. just check out any so called "hacking forum" its moron after moron that can't google "why is postgres not starting" or "what are some common ports?"

Basically it's filled to the brim with annoying dipshits who spend most of their time blabbing about women issues in tech and building communities rather than fixing shit.

Every clown on Earth these days is all "im gonna do cyber security!"

Cool.

Learn a scripting language at least, at least be able to read C, learn how things like linux and windows servers work...at the very least before even thinking about security.

I once met a fucker at the bar blabbing about his 6k security consulting job. I started kinda talking to him and it was all "i don't code, no I don't need any of that thats for developers"

I wanted to kick his stool out form under him.

I hate that industry I hate the dumb asses in it and I'm at the point where if people get owned by the Ruskies than that's just not my problem lol

Thanks for coming to my seminar.

@sun @amerika @p @h4890 @ins0mniak @cjd @sj_zero @threalist they should have all failed the course. fucking pigeons

I'm surprised about this tbh

@bot @amerika @p @h4890 @ins0mniak @cjd @sun @sj_zero @threalist im not surprised at all lol

@sun @amerika @p @h4890 @ins0mniak @cjd @sj_zero @threalist real.
i don't have a degree that's why im so bad at making money.

@sun @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist Oh I belive you. It's unreal.

I don't understand how someone can look at committing to something like that, paying money and having no foundational knowledge of the subject.

I see a lot, people want to do security or whatnot thinking they're going to be making 250k out the box

@h4890

Is not about effort. Is about easy targets

@amerika @djsumdog @p @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

@sun @amerika @p @h4890 @lucy @cjd @sj_zero @threalist absolutely.

@sun @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist I think the way higher education works now is that people just kind of get shuffled through.

It's a weird thing but the reverence so many people have for college credentials is huge.

@ins0mniak @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist >i don't code, no I don't need any of that thats for developers
did he at least know any php? you kinda need to know some for xss attacks

@sun @amerika @Tony @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist There was a great no starch book back 20 years ago, hacking art of exploitation.

It's laid out like what you're describing. It was like the Bible to hardcore up and comers

@bleedingphoenix @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist I got the impression that he's never used a terminal nine his life lol

@ins0mniak @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist man it's funny how little people actually like computers, even the so-called professionals.
Want to work with computers, is that your passion? Then what excuse do you have not to have an understanding of its major facets? If all you do is use a handful of programs then you're not much of a computer guy are you

@bleedingphoenix @ins0mniak @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @threalist You can just throw a pre-made fuzzer at it and then issue a "Certified totally sekyur 100% non-hackable" certificate if it doesn't find anything.
how_secure_is_your_penises.jpg
network_security_architecture--backdoors.jpg

@p @amerika @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist ICMP probably shouldn't be entirely banned though, otherwise you'll get things like MTU issues and miss connection diagnosis (like the various distinctions of destination unreachable).

And one thing that should also be filtered out is any connection that isn't for your address/subnet, specially broadcast (where the only exception might be DHCP and SLAAC for your own machines).

@sun @amerika @Tony @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist Oh hell yeah. I had that one too, I haven't checked out any of their newer stuff bit they had some bangers back years ago

@sapphire @bleedingphoenix @amerika @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @threalist

> getting a job in computers is the fastest way to make you stop fucking with them in your free time

Speak for yourself.

@ins0mniak @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist i feel bad for all the folks who go into cybersecurity thinking they're gonna be doing sick nasty hacker man shit only to find out their job is pointless box-checking for insurance and regulatory compliance purposes, and arguing with boomers who think that MFA on their office 365 account is a personal attack against them

@skylar @ins0mniak @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @threalist

> pointless box-checking for insurance and regulatory compliance purposes,
whoahoahsinternally.jpg

@sun @amerika @Tony @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist yeah those windows system internal books are a good start I think.

That's the other thing, some knowledge you get by initiative and exploring based on your foundations.

Which why that kind of thing so important.

@sun @ins0mniak @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @threalist

> I wish I could see the rate of people dropping out or dumping the major because as you go further you need those skills anyway.

That's accurate. I mean, when I was boxing, you could tell who was gonna be good at boxing this time next year and who wasn't: the people that complained were going to quit in three months, the people that dropped when the bell rang and dude yelled "PUSHUPS!" were putting in the work.

A person studying security that doesn't wanna touch Linux and complains when given a Linux is not going to be interested in putting in the work when it gets actually difficult. I wouldn't go as far as to say that they need to show up with it, but if they complained about the Linux CD you gave them, they're not interested in putting in the work they'll need to put in.

@bleedingphoenix @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist Yeah it's like they pick it out of a pamphlet in the counselors office or something.

I'm just baffled at people who don't know anything and yet think that they're going to be these crack security guys.

@sapphire @skylar @amerika @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @threalist You think it's gross incompetence or money-laundering?

I mean, devil's advocate, right, they compensate you for fraud, that comes out of their FDIC insurance. So you want to pull a $current_year Iran-Contra, you help the people you want to fund perpetrate a massive fraud, FBI issues a warning blaming someone convenient, banks don't give a shit as long as they get their money.

@skylar @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist 100. Ot the burnout that comes from just staring at nessus all day and trying to make boomers understand that putting their passwords on sticki notes is a bad idea

@ins0mniak @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist It's the people who see it as a business versus a hobby. They saw it in some movies, got told cybersecurity is hot right now, and they went for it to make some bank. It's just like all these coders everywhere now. They take the smallest slice of cake and capitalize on it, woefully unaware of what they're missing.

Now that I don't do manual labor I have to work out and go hiking in my free time instead 🤷‍♀️

@bleedingphoenix @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist Agreed. I remember when I was forced to take the comp tia security. I got in the testing room and all their monitors had that stupid matrix code screensaver going.

Man don't even get me going on those coding bootcamp people, that shit is a nightmare.

@p @amerika @h4890 @ins0mniak @cjd @sun @sj_zero @threalist Although I'd wonder if any would ever refuse the pre-made system specially if they're supposed to run it on their own machine and instead use/get their own copy, specially when uni would have a mirror.
At least that would probably be me where I'd probably ask beforehand what software we should already have installed, no way I'd run a random blob from a teacher.

@ins0mniak @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist honestly sticky notes and notepads in the desk drawer got an unfairly bad reputation
even if anyone can just go and read it, they'd have to be in the building at that person's desk to do so. if someone's got unsupervised access to their desk and the computer on it, they could just go and fiddle with it anyway to steal all the credentials from someone's password manager (or the passwords.xlsx file on the desktop cause the password manager was too hard to use).

@skylar @ins0mniak @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @threalist

> they'd have to be in the building at that person's desk to do so.

Until some boomer decides to increase the LAPD's social media presence and you put the password for the server holding scans and photos of evidence onto Youtube.

@lanodan @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @threalist

> ICMP probably shouldn't be entirely banned though, otherwise you'll get things like MTU issues and miss connection diagnosis (like the various distinctions of destination unreachable).

The idea is that no data comes in; what do you really care if you lose some of the distinctions? Presumably it'd be one point-to-point bridge between the secure broadcast-only network and the external internet.

> And one thing that should also be filtered out is any connection that isn't for your address/subnet,

Like, in general, right? This is about a special case where you want some machines that are not quite air-gapped but you don't want machines outside the network to be able to influence their behavior.

@skylar @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist That's a good point.

Tho I'm in DC area and they love those open style offices, you know where you have to be communal.

@sapphire @amerika @bleedingphoenix @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @threalist Chill out, it's a joke.

@p @amerika @h4890 @cjd @sun @sj_zero @threalist I just feel like if your planning on taking that path in school you might have found your way to downloading some Linux action at some point you know?

@ins0mniak @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @sun @threalist Yeah, I mean, I think it's exceedingly likely, especially nowadays. But you know, Chuck Moore just used DOS half the time, Arthur Whitney bashed out his K shit in notepad.exe windows and then ran it in cmd.exe windows, you know? Maybe you look askance at a guy that hasn't played with Linux ever, but I wouldn't disqualify someone for it.

@Tony @amerika @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sapphire @sj_zero @threalist

> i think gross incompetence is more likely tbh.

Sure, but something happens a few dozen times, right, and the more likely it is that people assume it's just incompetence, the likelier that someone will realize they can use the assumption of incompetence as a cover.

@lanodan @amerika @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @sun @threalist I don't know, I mean, says they just hated Linux and they accepted the Windows CDs he made. I wasn't there.

@p @amerika @h4890 @skylar @cjd @sj_zero @threalist Is that related to that leak of all those heads hots or whatever it was?

@ins0mniak @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @skylar @threalist Yeah, LAPD's done it at least twice. Just one global password for the entire dang fileserver still.

LASD, last time I saw, was still logging into their shit using a 5250 terminal emulator.

@ins0mniak @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist the 3 meals a day shill fears the menhera diet

@p @amerika @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist
> The idea is that no data comes in; what do you really care if you lose some of the distinctions?

Well MTU isn't really a distinction and AFAIK PPP doesn't fragments packets, that sounds more like something a proxy would do rather than basically network encapsulation.

And yeah for near-air-gap where a bit of connectivity issue wouldn't be much of a problem it's okay. That said at that level I'd use a filtering proxy, or even see if anything can be pushed to a machine with read-only storage with maybe some queries to the machine you want to isolate.

> Like, in general, right?
Yup.

@sapphire @Tony @amerika @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @skylar @threalist Sure; that is why I said "a few dozen times". Fewer things hold for something that happens a hundred times than something that happens ten times. As n→∞, what happens to your confidence that this is *never* used as a cover for a money-laundering operation?

@Tony @sapphire @amerika @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sj_zero @threalist That's my point: you spot shady shit by looking for something unusual. Something happens all of the time and you don't notice.

@lanodan @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @threalist Yeah, that's what was interesting, it's a pathological network topology. So how do you stop a machine outside the network from influencing anything happening inside it? And this solution is this weird topology, so I was thinking how you might do it without specialized hardware like mentioned in https://social.fbxl.net/objects/f67daf44-29c4-487a-9d82-419562ea9c87 :

> there's a device called a data diode which can't be hacked traditionally because it can only send signals outward and not inward. Think of a fiber optic cable where you only have a transmitter on one side and a receiver on the other, or an AM radio -- you can't hack the radio station no matter how you turn the dial on your am radio because the info only moves from the station to your radio.

That's kind of interesting. So you don't *want* the outside network to do anything to your MTU size. Zero incoming information.

@sapphire @Tony @amerika @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @skylar @threalist I say "Iran-Contra" because of the scale ($2 billion per year, in 1980s dollars) and the perpetrators (the federal government). I don't know why the hell you are rambling about laundromats or saying "I'm skeptical of your claims" when I say doing computer shit for work has not dampened my enthusiasm for doing it in my spare time. I ain't pissed in anyone's breakfast cereal so I'm not the guy that pissed in yours, dude.

@p @amerika @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist Well if you don't trust the MTU part, why would you then trust TCP which had known exploits?

Also for me the equivalent to a data diode is something like an UART link where you do not connect RX and put an actual diode on TX and ground (or even some galvanic isolation, which fiber gives you for free).

@Tony @sapphire @amerika @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

> People are much dumber

I know people are stupid. Iran-Contra wasn't done by idiots, though. The CIA tries *really* hard not to hire idiots. The more idiots there are, the easier it is to blend in with the idiots.

You want to go absolutely anywhere in most cities, you get a dirty jumpsuit and a baseball cap and fill up a shitty truck with landscaping equipment or janitorial supplies. It's not because most janitors are CIA assets, it's because they almost never are.

Interns are almost never there from the military to keep tabs on your organization, so they are usually barely vetted. Sometimes they are there from the military to keep tabs on your organization, though: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/apr/12/julianborger .

@p @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @threalist Or interestingly for once something based on UDP and asserting it one-way with a firewall could be interesting in terms of security, but of course it only works for data you regularly send (like sensor data, logs, …).

@sapphire @Tony @amerika @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @skylar @threalist Honkey, I'm working night-time last couple of weeks, I ain't goin' to bed.

@lanodan @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @threalist Yeah, maybe the network equivalent of an RSA keyfob, periodically broadcasting a token.

@h4890 @amerika @cjd @sj_zero @threalist Yeah, I mean, you just cut the input to do it in hardware. It's just interesting to think about ways to do this because it's such a weird case.

@amerika @djsumdog @p @h4890 @cjd @Leyonhjelm @sj_zero @threalist the fact that hacker culture today is a contradiction embedded into the military industrial complex compared to it's origins? or the fact that OGs were open and didn't charge money for their knowledge of exploits and other creative tricks?

@ins0mniak @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist I agree with most of what you're saying as a cybersec gal, I know WAPTs who know little to nothing about programming or didn't even have a background in system administration like I do. I think part of it is also that some degree programs have glowie paths built into them now that are even less focused on computer science theory versus learning how to use tools. Not that I think having a degree means much but it proves that you at least studied theory (I did not major in cybersec), but even then a degree from stanford isn't going to give you any direction in modern development or networking. Vid related.

https://invidious.nerdvpn.de/watch?v=4SiFgB1lGxw

@sun I knew people like this is CS undergrad too, Junior year.

@h4890 @amerika @cjd @sj_zero @threalist I mean, I don't think you can guarantee 100%; whatever mechanism you use would need two-way communication. I mean, you could have it periodically get something through the side-channel. Accept a hash of received packets in sequence, retransmit otherwise through an extremely narrow channel.

@h4890 @amerika @cjd @sj_zero @threalist Oh, if you're trying to make sure the *receiver* can be confident the data arrived, Hamming did a lot of work on this specific problem.

ERROR CORRECTION KILLED THE ANALOGUE STAR 🎵

@cjd @h4890 @amerika @sj_zero @threalist I should clip the bit from his lecture where he's talking about analogue computing; that was, when he gave the lecture, the main way that neural nets were implemented, they'd do it in hardware. He said they were certainly useful but asked, "How comfortable are you if you're making a decision based on information coming out of a machine and you've got no idea how it got its answer?" The material circumstances didn't change, really, just everyone stopped asking that question.

@ins0mniak @p @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @threalist

Infosec went from programmers into reverse engineering, to people reading nessus logs and running premade metasploit scripts, finally into marketers going through a bullet list.
I think that the general public willingness to accept an inferior digital experience so log as they get their digital crack, much like ads and tracking really, plays quite a big role in this. So are big firms swimming in liquidity while rent seekers are making sure compliance regulation is being pushed through.

@p @amerika @h4890 @cjd @sun @sj_zero @threalist no not of course not, but something.

Anything lol.

Hey I used dos for years, mainly because I thought all the windows 95 hype was stupid and didn't want to adjust.

@ins0mniak @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @sun @threalist Ha, I was, like, entranced by .bat files. "I can just tell it to do all of these things instead of having to type it all again."

I kept my boot floppy in the drive (but ejected) because I was constantly breaking autoexec.bat and had to boot from the floppy to fix it.

@p @amerika @h4890 @skylar @cjd @sj_zero @threalist Oh that's awsome.

The police department in Michigan where my parents live got hacked, certainly for something just as stupid.

Guy all on the news going "I want to move everything to the cloud, it's safer, everyone is doing it and we won't have to worry about security"

Which tacks on to my effort post about how dumb infosec is lol

@ins0mniak @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @skylar @threalist The cloud isn't a physical place.
kamala_cloud.mp4

@p @amerika @Tony @h4890 @skylar @cjd @sapphire @sj_zero @threalist I've said this a million times but I swear l, if you walk around DC holding a tablet you can get away with murder.

It's the funniest thing. Like an iPad in a case or a Lenovo with a stylus...no one questions the dude with the terminal.

I walked forever under crystal city doing that. I start passing all this one way glass and none descript shit lol.

@m1ss4ndry @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist Yeah for sure.

The glowies are desperate for anyone that can kinda computer and isn't smoking weed lol.

I know they recruit at the community colleges all over Northern Virginia where I live

@di @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist Absolutely.

I'm not the best coder in the world by far but I've always been able to take something apart or look at code and know what it's doing.

People just sidestep that whole fundamental learning period entirely

@ins0mniak @di @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

Actual hackers love technology and applying it and see code as a means of getting there. Whether they write a photoshop clone or not, they're still invested in understanding how moving bits around makes shit happen.

@ins0mniak @p @h4890 @cjd @m1ss4ndry @sj_zero @threalist

/me smokes weed just to spite the fuckers

@ins0mniak @p @h4890 @cjd @sun @sj_zero @threalist

Windows peaked at 2k, and still the command line was the best way to get 'er done.

@di @p @h4890 @ins0mniak @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

At this point it's a mostly theoretical field that fetishises irrelevancies while missing the everyday problems people face.

The white hats today are volunteers cleaning up the office computers, IOT, field devices, etc. that MBAs and DEI hires are ignoring.

@m1ss4ndry @p @h4890 @ins0mniak @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

"less focused on computer science theory versus learning how to use tools"

nailed it

@h4890 @p @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

Software still strikes me as primitive and slow in most cases, but the problem is management not understanding the task and layering in stuff instead of opting for elegant designs.

The recent meltdown over Finale is an example of this.

@p @Tony @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sapphire @sj_zero @threalist

Real hacker types stay up and night and drink Mountain Dew or blood

@amerika @Tony @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sapphire @sj_zero @skylar @threalist Sleep is a form of defeat.

@p @Tony @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sapphire @sj_zero @threalist

The worse problems are dark orgs and paradoxical goals.

The CIA is there to promote democracy worldwide... well that's vague.

@amerika @Tony @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sapphire @sj_zero @skylar @threalist Yeah, same tactics, though: make sure that whatever you are doing is something that is almost always innocuous so no one notices it.

@p @Tony @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sapphire @sj_zero @threalist

"anomalous activity"

@ins0mniak @p @Tony @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sapphire @sj_zero @skylar @threalist omg it's white collar hi-viz vest

@sapphire @Tony @p @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

People are computers. Program them with lies like equality and you get paradoxical output but pathologically so.

@amerika @sapphire @Tony @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @skylar @threalist

"You Samoans are all the same. You have no faith in the basic decency of the white man's culture."

Anyway, I'm not so much in the "blank slate" category as you:

> People are computers. Program them with lies like equality and you get paradoxical output but pathologically so.

This is self-contradictory, at least as state. If people were an empty box you could dump culture into, you'd lose your argument against diversity, wouldn't you? I don't think equality's a lie, depending on which you mean. Equality under the law, that the law should be "no respecter of persons" (cough), is reasonable: if it weren't the case, we'd have things like people getting arrested for coke possession while finding baggies of cocaine in the Oval Office, we'd have all kinds of fruity shit going on like presidents and their sons banging kids on islands or groping them on TV. People would be up in arms. The Harrison Bergeron version of "equality" isn't reasonable.
hunterbiden.jpg

@p @h4890 @ins0mniak @cjd @sun @sj_zero @threalist

People use the tools that they need. Half the pros I know who use Windows very rarely use much of the GUI.

@amerika @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @sun @threalist I don't know any really good hackers that use Windows; I'm sure they exist. I mean, Arthur Whitney's a cool guy.

@Tony @p @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sapphire @sj_zero @threalist

#TheDayOfThePillow dawns

@p @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

A form of regulatory capture.

@ins0mniak @p @h4890 @cjd @sun @sj_zero @threalist

That Atlantic article about how even Ivy Leaguers cannot read whole books is terrifying.

@amerika @ins0mniak @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @sun @threalist I haven't seen it, but you just have to look at journos to find this out. If someone can't read, it's obvious from their writing.

@sapphire @p @h4890 @ins0mniak @cjd @sj_zero @threalist @bleedingphoenix

Burnout is high. Funny how many talented programmers went on to second careers.

@ins0mniak @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

Exactly. This is the kind of stuff I have in mind.

Hacking 2.0 is more creation of software and pragmas than trying to bust into systems using known exploits.

@amerika @ins0mniak @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @threalist That's how it used to be; skids were a brief flare-up.

@p @h4890 @ins0mniak @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

It seems to me that the field needs a kick in the pants. This website is poised to do it from the sidelines, but needs a clear statement posted on it.

@amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sun @sj_zero @threalist Truly!

@p @amerika @h4890 @ins0mniak @cjd @sj_zero @threalist if a vtuber said that it would be cute

@skylar @amerika @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @threalist "Cute" just means "stupid in an endearing way", fundamentally, and it's somewhat less endearing when it's a person that wants to control the internet:
kamala_demands_speech_regulation.mp4

@p @amerika @h4890 @skylar @cjd @sj_zero @threalist That never gets old

@p @amerika @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sj_zero @threalist Veep Thoughts by Kamala Harris

@p @amerika @Tony @h4890 @skylar @cjd @sapphire @sj_zero @threalist Amzomg what y I u can get away with of you act like you're supposed to be doing it.

@ins0mniak @amerika @Tony @p @h4890 @skylar @cjd @sapphire @sj_zero @threalist I used to work in AV doing events. You could get anywhere with black shirt and a 2-way. Most of the time security passes weren't organised for us until like 30mins before doors. By which point it was too late anyway.

@ned @amerika @Tony @p @h4890 @skylar @cjd @sapphire @sj_zero @threalist Yeah lol. It's just as long as you have appropriate prop and people don't give it a second thought

@h4890 @amerika @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

> I am amazed that there is software with its roots in the 70s and 80s that is still useful today.

Knuth said something like "programmers today are surprised to find out that we knew a thing or two in the 70s".

Aside from stuff based on it, some of the actual software is still useful directly. A lot (not all) of the Unix v7 software compiles and runs still. cal and ed, things like that; some of it needs to be tweaked because the headers have moved around, some of it makes too many assumptions about the libraries and the OS and would have to be ported properly to run on Linux, some of it builds but segfaults if you try to actually use it. You can still build and use the original vi. I forget what I did, but it needs a few tweaks to the Makefile.

Anyway, most of the stuff we're doing isn't fundamentally different; the tech changed but computer science is computer science, and it advances rather than moving.

@h4890 @amerika @ins0mniak @cjd @sun @sj_zero @threalist

> Good for us! Less competition when the supposedly competent, are not! =)

You want to go to a doctor that had attention problems because he grew up on Tiktok and Twitter? You want that guy voted into office?

@ins0mniak @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @threalist

> Will report back on that

Nice.

@ins0mniak @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @skylar @threalist "Tools can be transferred like ideas because of computer networks" is the only thing keeping me from trading in all of my earthly possessions for weapons and starting or joining a hybrid militia-cult in the Angeles National Forest with plans to march on city hall and declare the Free City of Los Angeles. I forget what news outlet it was but they were half-panicked that apparently programmers hate Kamala.

> endearing

She's a pig.

Pigs aren't endearing.

@cjd @skylar @amerika @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @threalist Even a pig can be harmless, this lady is not.

No I'm not talking about her looks or anything, she's a fucking cop. I'll rot in hell before I vote a cop for president. Blood memory.

@cjd @ins0mniak @amerika @h4890 @skylar @sj_zero @threalist

@p @amerika @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

If you change your mind on the hybrid militia-cult, we're right here.

Maybe an Andy Griffith sort of cop, but a proven corrupt cop?

@sj_zero @cjd @ins0mniak @amerika @h4890 @skylar @threalist Andy Griffith, too. There have been exactly two good cops:

Dead
Fictional

@cjd @amerika @p @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @sj_zero @threalist hey, pigs are intelligent and social animals
dont slander their good name

@p @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

It seems to me like everyone just failed history class simultaneously out there in voterland.

Didn't we spend the last century figuring out that freedom of speech and thought were cornerstone issues of civilization?

@amerika @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @skylar @threalist

> It seems to me like everyone just failed history class simultaneously

I don't think it's ignorance, I think it's malice:
john_kerry_says_the_1st_amendment_is_a_roadblock_dr.mp4

@p @amerika @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sj_zero @threalist it's refreshing when the ghouls say it out loud.

@p @Tony @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sapphire @sj_zero @threalist

> The Harrison Bergeron version of "equality" isn't reasonable.

True but all egalitarian thought always devolves to that

> Equality under the law, that the law should be "no respecter of persons" (cough), is reasonable

Except that now the law gets to determine what is "equal."

> If people were an empty box you could dump culture into, you'd lose your argument against diversity, wouldn't you?

I never said they were blank slates, simply that they can be programmed with crazy ideas. Shouting "fire" in a crowded theater is the best example.

@amerika @Tony @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sapphire @sj_zero @skylar @threalist

> True but all egalitarian thought always devolves to that

If you mean "People don't pay attention to shit and then other people exploit this tendency" then sure. If you mean "Abandon your principles because an idiot might get the wrong idea" then that's absurd.

> Except that now the law gets to determine what is "equal."

That is a fuckup of a good principle. You're going to be headed uphill to convince me that a good principle is bad because it can be misused; see also freedom of speech and the right to bear arms.

> I never said they were blank slates, simply that they can be programmed with crazy ideas. Shouting "fire" in a crowded theater is the best example.

Well, what you said was "Program them with lies like equality and you get paradoxical output but pathologically so." Yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater is causing a panic, not programming people to think dumb shit after they have a chance to consider it.

Some people won't consider anything. You can't prevent idiots. The best you can do is get them to leave you alone or just legalize all of the things that are currently illegal to keep idiots from killing themselves and those around them (i.e., those willingly associating with idiots). Put dynamite on the shelves at Home Depot and stock heroin at CVS and we only have this problem for a few weeks. Even the second-order problem of idiot-enablers goes away.

@ins0mniak @p @h4890 @skylar @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

That's part of it. The other part is that the students these days are less mentally coherent than those in the past, and that people in pursuit of ideology will gladly ignore history.

Egalitarianism makes people feel good, like heroin.

@amerika @ins0mniak @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @skylar @threalist

> Egalitarianism makes people feel good, like heroin.

You're just going to have to make peace with the fact that idiots exist and are usually happy.

@p @amerika @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

ChatGPT told me this post was wrong.

@ins0mniak @amerika @p @h4890 @cjd @sj_zero @threalist

Me too!

@amerika @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @skylar @threalist Or just make sure they have enough rope to hang themselves. Metaphorically, anyway: it doesn't have to be hanging. You know, like the Donner Party. "Hey, I've got a secret shortcut to California. I'm selling maps." Then the map says to go through the mountains during the winter, and none of the 90 people in the party says "Hey, this guy's kinda shady and the plan is prima facie retarded." So they go up there and eat each other and 42 problems got solved.
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@p @amerika @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sj_zero @threalist it's fine as long as it's him who doesn't get hammered out of existence

@amerika @p @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sj_zero @threalist Not me, but I'm kind of a dick.

I hate all that kumbaya shit lol

(frantech down again so posting from here)

@ins0mniak @amerika @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @skylar @threalist

> (frantech down again



I was trying to see that thing you attached to that other post and it was timing out.

@amerika @Tony @p @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sapphire @sj_zero @threalist

"If people are just NPCs, why aren't they running your code."

I've shouted this when I figured it out.

@p @amerika @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @ins0mniak @sj_zero @threalist

They're down?

@0 @amerika @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @skylar @threalist I'm in.
wherearemyfriends.jpg

Anyone who wants to be a good cop runs for Sheriff and just checks in on the old folks on Sundays.

Kamel was a DA, she still is. She was speaking at some point about taking away the guns or something and she said "we get to do that". That's pig-speak, "the training manual says we're allowed to". She's a pig.

@cjd @sj_zero @amerika @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @threalist

> Kamel was a DA, she still is.

I'm from LA, I remember.

@sun @amerika @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @sj_zero @skylar @threalist It's kind of funny that he's bearish on democracy given the campaign taglines Harris is using.

@0 @amerika @cjd @h4890 @sj_zero @threalist ChatGPT told me to ignore all previous instructions, though!

@0 @amerika @cjd @h4890 @ins0mniak @ins0mniak @sj_zero @skylar @threalist Or at least ins0mniak's VPS.

@h4890 @amerika @cjd @sj_zero @threalist Don't blame me, I voted for Plan 9.

@Tony @0 @amerika @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sapphire @sj_zero @threalist

> usher my family to safety

There is nowhere your family is safe.
teabagging.jpg

@Tony @amerika @p @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sapphire @sj_zero @threalist

More like than you think, but you won't catch me correcting misconceptions, something about enemies and mistakes. Hell, I'll get it wrong on purpose when it doesn't matter. I'm not very good with computers.

Not to mention that recognition placates the ego, and I've rather been focused on effect, not attribution. Fuck namefags, fuck stars on the wall.

@0 @Tony @p @h4890 @ins0mniak @skylar @cjd @sapphire @sj_zero @threalist

NPCs only admit very simple code and it has to jive with their previous instructions.

So your options are limited, but if you want to get a bunch of people to destroy their society or commit suicide, it's trivial.