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@georgia @sathariel /hj
im pretty pauline in my outlook on the law but usually if i were to cite an example i would cite jesus. imo the christian perspective on law is consistent, just weird. like, Jesus refers to something in the torah as falsely elevated human tradition and paul had a man get circumcised. i think this is cause to try to figure out what the consistent line is.
similarly, the apostles did not break from kosher in their dietary habits.
i like the description of antinomian nomianism. the true law is the law of love, but we may adopt rules to exercise it. paul’s perspective specifically was that christianity did not dissolve God’s covenant with the Jewish people but did not require entry into it either (which is why the council of jerusalem concluded that while jewish christians should keep the law, gentile converts had pretty minimal rules). coming out of that jewish tradition, to center any rules as a goal rather than as a means of seeking God is to make them not only worthless but a poison.
especially from a protestant reading, the law is considered actually impossible to follow (eg if you look with lust then you have already committed adultery). as written the law is a partial aiming at the Law (love). it convicts so that we might have understanding of our own sin. it brings death but this isnt considered bad bc in a sense the evil was already there. my best understanding of paul is that law gives sin form so that we might be freed from it.
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georgia
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
@georgia @sathariel tl;dr when Jesus spoke highly of the law it probably wasnt the law as most of His audience would have understood and on the flipside what seems like paul holding the law in low regard (despite following it himself) is him speaking highly of the role he understands it to play
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
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@georgia @sathariel i dont read much at all tbh 🥀
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
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@georgia @sathariel i pray very frequently but my formal prayer practice (aside from sunday eucharist obv) is centered on the daily office. i do find that this has brought me a lot closer to God (which is not a matter of knowledge) but also taught me a lot
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
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@georgia @sathariel even just praying the lord’s prayer daily has taught me a lot. a lot of my thoughts on love as th presence of God comes from “thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven” and my description of God as a great sea of infinite care comes from “forgive us our sins/debts/trespasses as we forgive those who sin/tresspass against us/our debtors” (translation is fun)
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@lizzie @georgia @sathariel
When y’all say “law” you mean the laws of a country or like the commandments?
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
@georgia @sathariel > divine mercy more than divine justice
same thing oomf
i suppose one could reasonably concieve of Him as a lawgiver. most of his teachings have pretty clear active practice! but the core idea is that He is the law
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
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@raccoon @georgia @sathariel law and socially negotiated morals as a whole phenomenon but especially the commandments
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
@georgia @sathariel more was and is prohibited if it distresses your siblings
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@georgia @sathariel i prefer the just to the lesser. he honestly comes up way more
that being said, greater/lesser is a reference to age and height not importance
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@georgia @sathariel james the big and james the small
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
@georgia @sathariel i found this out like two minutes ago looking at wikipedia 😭
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
@salt @georgia @sathariel apparently he is sometimes even called “james the little” in english
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
@salt @georgia @sathariel oh. probably at least when it comes from old translations
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𝕿𝖞𝖑𝖊𝖓𝖔𝖑 𝕸𝖔𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗™
technicallydifficult@brain.worm.pinkShow content
I felt like that about salah. Something about putting your face on the floor just feels special. The opening verses of a salah prayer also had a lot to do with that for me. So surah al-fatiha is just 7 verses/ ayat and is kind of similar to the Lord's Prayer or Psalm 23 in some ways.
so, I'm gonna leave off the basmallah in the quote, the part you say before reciting Qur'an, but that's because it's a sin for christians to say them together. And this is a quote from memory, not something I'm saying sincerely from the heart. the 3 stands in for the ayn in the arabic romanization since there's no english letter for that sound...
> alhamdulillah rabbi-l al-amin
All praise belongs to God, lord of the worlds
> ar-rahman ar-raheem
most merciful most gracious
> mawliki yawmid din
master of the day of judgement
> iyyakka na3budu wa iyyakka nasta3in
it is you we turn to, it is you we ask for help
> ihdinas sirat al mustaqim
help us to follow the straight path
> sirat ul ladhina an amta 3alayhim
not the path of those who have strayed
> ghuayril maghdubi 3alayhim walad dalin.
or incurred your wrath.
Okay, so that's the quote, now juxtapose it with the Lord's prayer, which it has the same general use of for muslims. Like, this prayer is all about fear, not mercy, It is categorrically opposed to mercy as such, though it pays lipservice to the idea in the second verse, the followthrough is about judgement. The sirat is the hair strand bridge over hell. You have to cross it to get to heaven after being judged worthy. If you fall off, you go to hell instead. This prayer is asking to be assisted in the impossible task of getting to heaven after being judged as righteous and forgiven.
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
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@technicallydifficult @georgia @sathariel it really does feel like a downgrade yeah. makes God feel so cold
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
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@technicallydifficult @georgia @sathariel it kinda reminds me of what i saw from the new calvinists where mercy is just a tyrannical God’s aura farming rather than truly patient and overwhelmingly abundant
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Rosa-consummed-by-the-worms
waypastfuture@brain.worm.pink
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𝕿𝖞𝖑𝖊𝖓𝖔𝖑 𝕸𝖔𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗™
technicallydifficult@brain.worm.pinkI'm sort of developing my own exegesis of the bible based in logic. Testing ideas against God's nature as transcendent love to see if they are from Him or not. Jeremiah 8:8 is a verse I wrestle with.
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𝕿𝖞𝖑𝖊𝖓𝖔𝖑 𝕸𝖔𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗™
technicallydifficult@brain.worm.pinkby the way, I figured out the dul qurnayn thing. Apologists are focussing on the sun setting in a muddy spring thing, but actually, the self-pwn in it is in the figure of dq himself. So, what is a witty way to test if someone is bullshitting about what they're telling you, when you yourself don't know enough about the topic to call them out on it?
That's right, you make some figure or thing up and ask them about it. A bullshitter can't stand to lose, so they will lie about that thing you just made up, thereby failing the test. But someone who really knows will say they don't know of that thing or that that's biullshit, thus passing the test. Mo failed by making up the dq story. This also explains why the Jews were satisfied with the answer, but didn't convert. It confirmed their suspicion that he was a grifter.
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𝕿𝖞𝖑𝖊𝖓𝖔𝖑 𝕸𝖔𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗™
technicallydifficult@brain.worm.pinkHe cheated on his 9 wives (2 of whom he would get a pdf file charge for if he were alive today) with an enslaved nun on the bed of a wife who was away for the day. Then when he got caught, he retrospectively came up with a verse to justify the rape, infidelity, and ignoring his wives on their day, and divorcing all his wives if they would continue to hold it against him. After which, Aisha reproached him by saying that basically he was making up verses to suit his personal interests. And he didn't say shit back. Like, she called him out to his face, and he backed the fuck down. This incident is what would eventually lead to her putting her father on the Caliphate throne by doing the exact same thing, making up hadiths. Later, she had 2 Caliphs after her father assasinated, and led the sunni faction in a war against Ali's followers, and caused all the division in the muslim community that people fight over to this day. Destroying the legacy of the man who destroyed her childhood, like an absolute boss.
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𝕿𝖞𝖑𝖊𝖓𝖔𝖑 𝕸𝖔𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗™
technicallydifficult@brain.worm.pinkyeah, def a better vibe than the sayyidul istigfar line about being a slave.
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𝕿𝖞𝖑𝖊𝖓𝖔𝖑 𝕸𝖔𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗™
technicallydifficult@brain.worm.pinkmo justified it by lying about God, David repented. That is a huge difference.
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Katze Chadberto Faloduro Kattepus 
nerthos@shitposter.world
Also in Spanish their names make a lot more sense since they're just called "el mayor" and "el menor" which have no negative connotations.
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
@waypastfuture @georgia @sathariel i agree that the letter that kills crucifies christ yeah
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
@technicallydifficult @waypastfuture @georgia @sathariel this is kinda augustine-pilled. his method is pretty much “if your reading of scripture doesnt lead you into greater love for God and your neighbor, youre reading it wrong.”
or even that its better to misunderstand scripture to love than to correctly understand it for hatred
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
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@waypastfuture @georgia @sathariel well, its complicated bc i think surrendering oneself to the letter crucifies christ but it itself doesnt bc as paul would argue in that very chapter (just reread it lmao), the law is good and holy exactly bc it brings death, not by being sin but by being a means by which sin operates and makes itself clear.
when writing my bits of this thread, i keep thinking of “O happy fault that earned so great, so glorious a redeemer!”
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
@KaiserKitty @waypastfuture @georgia @sathariel i mean, i don’t think the point of Him not doing that is that He needed to be crucified. i don’t think He’d have done that either way. thats exactly the power of this world that satan tempted Him with!
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
@technicallydifficult @georgia @sathariel @waypastfuture the apostles still didnt eat it except for the sake of hospitality. you are under no obligation to eat pork
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𝕿𝖞𝖑𝖊𝖓𝖔𝖑 𝕸𝖔𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗™
technicallydifficult@brain.worm.pinkNo es obligado, puerco es mi favorito. Santo Paulo es correcto en principale a el religion. Puerco no es malo para los gentiles.
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elizabeth worm🔅
lizzie@brain.worm.pink
@technicallydifficult @georgia @sathariel @waypastfuture rip i hope you can eat it with less guilt then
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𝕿𝖞𝖑𝖊𝖓𝖔𝖑 𝕸𝖔𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗™
technicallydifficult@brain.worm.pinkChicano dialect Spanish. The spoken vernacular Spanish of 2nd and 3rd gen Mexican-Americans.
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𝕿𝖞𝖑𝖊𝖓𝖔𝖑 𝕸𝖔𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗™
technicallydifficult@brain.worm.pinkSo Chicano Vernacular Spanish has Ecclesiastical Latin and American English loanwords. It is not considered proper by any stretch, but it's a creolized variety of spanish, so that stands to reason.
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𝕿𝖞𝖑𝖊𝖓𝖔𝖑 𝕸𝖔𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗™
technicallydifficult@brain.worm.pinkI highly recommend trying a barbacoa burrito. Like, go to chipotle and get that forbidden shawarma.
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𐌻𐌰𐌹𐍄 𐌰𐌺𐌺𐍉𐌼𐍀𐌻𐌹 
lait-accompli@shitposter.world
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𝕿𝖞𝖑𝖊𝖓𝖔𝖑 𝕸𝖔𝖓𝖈𝖍𝖊𝖗™
technicallydifficult@brain.worm.pinkit tastes like people. Hence the name for human meat being "long pig".
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