@georgia the older I get the more I realize he was history's greatest villain

@prettygood Luther sucks!!!

@georgia

Wiener's thesis represents what historians call the "Sonderweg" (special path) interpretation of German history—the idea that German history logically proceeded from Luther to Hitler.

Wiener's book doesn't actually prove the connection—he shows similarities between Luther's and Hitler's views but doesn't demonstrate causation.

The fact that many German Lutherans supported Hitler while many others did not weakens the direct causation

@georgia

Gordon Rupp published a direct response titled "Martin Luther: Hitler's Cause—or Cure" through Lutterworth Press in 1945, specifically countering Wiener's book.

Wiener's interpretation was common in American scholarship in the mid-20th century but was almost universally rejected by German historians in the 1960s who argued that Nazism was simply one instance of totalitarianism that arose in various countries, not something uniquely rooted in German Protestant culture.

@georgia @prettygood amen.

@prettygood @georgia I knew this as soon as I learned he and his wife were swingers or whatever

@georgia Agnostic writers with their mid takes on Christianity and ultimately free will.

@sapphire @georgia thanks I just thought of what I want to name a public fedi server when I make one

@splitshockvirus hes not agnostic but youre right that some of his ideas are half baked

@georgia

I scanned the image and am being told it's written by Aldous Huxley

>It (Lutheranism) worships a God who is neither just nor merciful... The Law of Nature, which ought to be the

This reads like an edgy highschool student crying about life being unfair. Orthodox Church, Catholicism and Lutheranism worship the same God. Stating anything other is blatantly false or massively opinionated. It really kills everything else being stated.

@splitshockvirus hes quoting dean inge, not sure who that is though

@splitshockvirus @georgia Nah. The creation of the filioque clause makes all other Christian groups outside of Orthodoxy worship a different god.

@jmw150 @splitshockvirus I get filioque. Christ in the gospel of John says he will send the comforter after him, so doesnt the Holy Spirit also proceed from him?

@jmw150 @georgia

I was referring to God the Father in this case.

However this just reminded me of the great schisms and how pointless they are.

@splitshockvirus @jmw150 they are incredibly pointless, its a shame

@georgia @splitshockvirus You mean John 15:26?

But when the Helper comes, whom I shall send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify of Me.

Originally

Ὅταν ἔλθῃ ὁ παράκλητος ὃν ἐγὼ πέμψω ὑμῖν παρὰ τοῦ πατρός,
τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας ὃ παρὰ τοῦ πατρὸς ἐκπορεύεται,
ἐκεῖνος μαρτυρήσει περὶ ἐμοῦ.

From the Papyrus 66 which was discovered in 1952 near Jabal Abu Mana in Egypt as part of the Bodmer Papyri collection, dated around 200 AD.

From this Jesus is sending. Proceeding means something closer to creation when referring to the Holy Spirit. Ontologically God the Father is the source of all things, not the Son. The filioque started around 600AD as an attempt to explain spirits to germanic tribes, as far as I have learned.

It is good to appreciate the context. Western Rome fell apart decades after Christianity became the state religion. The bible was written in Greek which the East spoke, while Western Rome spoke Latin natively. So the East had hundreds of years with the text in their own language, with time and money to maintain that knowledge. While, over time a lot of linguistic confusion and desperate attempts of the clergy to remain in power without an empire muddied Western theology. An example of this is how much language had diverged. Kione Greek is pretty similar to modern Greek. But Latin is no longer spoken natively, and the jump from any romance language is rather high.

@georgia @splitshockvirus Eh. There have been heretics since Jesus died on the cross. The aposles themselves had to be corrected by Jesus multiple times. That is the nature of a complicated reality.

Like my priest says, these other groups are a far from satanists.