Iran says trans 👏 women 👏 are 👏 women 👏

@nyx https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-29832690

@whitequark no doubt because western shitlibs have been using us as pawns for imperialism

@whitequark a lot of people are really quick to say that nonwestern countries hates gays and trannies while not acknowledging that whatever degree to which these things form organically outside the west cannot compare to the cultural and epistemic imperialism it directly perpetrates to intensify all of this many times over what would have otherwise probably formed. as always our true enemy is the United $$nakes

@nyx I'm glad to live in a country where I don't need to have my body hacked up to change a letter on some plastic

@eris so you'd prefer to be forcibly detransitioned and v-coded?

@nyx I'd rather not live in a country that's 30 years behind on gender matters. The Soviet Union in the 1920s let you change your ID and birth certificate with no conditions, believing that just supporting trans people leads to the best outcome and that's reflected well in the US today. There's simply zero reason to compromise, if I have no intention of SRS then that fake respect offers me nothing.

@nyx isn't the catch here that they forcibly transition one member of gay couples and still discriminate against them on horrific levels

@eris instead we're living in a country that is 87 years behind (1939 Germany to be exact)

@eris @nyx certainly one of the ways to refer to SRS

@hayley @nyx almost like FORCED SRS is body invasion horror or something

@nyx while the Nazi comparisons are useful for describing the treatment of immigrants, no, this is nothing like 1939 Germany, and no, that comparison doesn't work in defending Iran's bullshit laws lol

You have several people on your own instance telling you the reality of this law and it's actual impact but for some reason you're doing the white woman thing where you're somehow the real victim

@eris @nyx okay sure I can see the pressure

@eris @nyx hi guys

@eris sometimes people show their true shitlib colors when responding to obvious bait

@eris but yeah I'm sure that everything the right has been saying that they're going to do and that they've been doing is all not going to happen. we're at the stage where they're literally taking documents away from trans people, trying to legislate our existence as illegal, and have stated their plans to forcibly detransition trans inmates while already being at the stage of denying them HRT on top of all the v-coding stuff that has been going on for forever.

but I'm sure that I'm just being a white tranny about all this. it's not like the right hates brown people AND trans people and wants to eradicate all of us

@nyx this maybe pinkwashing but im p sure they only recognize it if comphet. still better than amerikkka ig?

@eris @nyx this reply is rendered substantially less convincing living in a state where SRS was required back when you were allowed to change your gender marker at all lol

@nyx It is certainly shit that Kansas pulled that stunt, but they can be sued into the ground, it can be legally challenged, and those individuals aren't being rounded up and can come to any blue state where this isn't a risk of even temporarily happening.

But you should definitely move to Iran I'm sure it will go great.

@nepetalactone @nyx While I'm sure you think this reply "slapped" and gave yourself a pat on the back for farming a whole 2 likes... that is, quite literally the point of social progress to improve these laws from the backwards ones that your state or Iran have now, so I'm not sure what you think you're adding.

@eris @nyx we get it, you're scared of muslim people. call them a slur and move on already lol.

@fujoshi @eris no eris is just being a lib

@nyx @eris what's the difference?

@fujoshi @eris her opinions throughout this thread have been stupid but I don't think she's an Islamophobe

@fujoshi @nyx so you think the Islamic Republic represents the beliefs of all Muslim people? Because I've met plenty who believe in actual trans rights, I'm not sure why you need to frame state apologia as you being a good ally. Is it antisemitism to criticize Israel too?

@eris the Rubicon for "you can't do that, that's illegal!" has already been crossed many, many times over in the past year, and there have been exactly zero consequences for the Trump administration and the various far-right state governments thus far, certainly nothing even close to what would be justice for what they've been doing. but sure, the Democrats are going to save us, they're totally not going to capitulate to the far-right the nanosecond it becomes politically expedient for them to throw us under the bus

@eris @nyx didya hear iraq has WMDs?

@fujoshi @nyx my asshole does if you keep reaching

@eris @nepetalactone ah yes, we simply need to reform the system so it can give us back the rights that it took from us in the first place :)

@eris @nyx all i'm saying is things were already "that bad" and they are getting worse

@nyx yeah no the state is after white women in Portland you're so right and this isn't libshit to say. Go off queen.

@eris @nyx yall are both just strawmanning each other at this point, time to dial it back or wrap it up tbh cuz it's going nowhere fast at this rate

@eris you can keep pulling the "white trans woman" card all you want but it doesn't make anything I'm saying less true:

1. the far-right is making moves to eradicate trans people like they are currently doing to brown people
2. the Democrats have not done a single thing to effectively #resist any of this
3. the Democrats have repeatedly indicated their willingness to throw trans women under the bus
4. you are coping about the reality of all of this
5. you are a lib

@nyx you keep bringing up Democrats to a communist, I'm not sure what you think that angle is doing other than trying to make yourself look cool to the 2 chucklefucks who would like any take you ever made, but framing me as a Democrat to seem like you owned one doesn't make your argument actually hold weight. You said yourself your post was "ragebait" and now all you've done in response to it is cry about theoretical future victimhood while people are actually suffering. Yes that is white woman shit

@eris every single point you've made is indistinguishable from shit that liberals say. I don't care what you call yourself ideologically, you are a liberal. you can throw around all the rhetoric you want about white trannies (which has ironically been used against you in the past by all the harassment you experienced when running disqordia but I guess you didn't learn from any of that), but it doesn't change the fact that the far-right can in fact want to eradicate multiple different groups of people and that there is nothing "theoretical" about shit that they are actively doing right now, have been making moves towards since the first Trump term, and that has been met by zero institutional resistance of any kind

you can continue to bury your head in the sand about all this but Gavin Newsom is not going to protect you once the Trump administration brings to the national level what is currently being giving a trial run in the red states. just like Walz has been doing in Minnesota, they will denounce everything but useless peaceful protest against all of this and will at best offer only empty symbolic platitudes while federal agents do to other minorities what has been happening to brown people

@nyx @eris

@nyx critical support on Iranian forced feminization.

@kittenlikeasmallcat claiming irony is not a good defense when there's literally nothing that indicates the punchline isnt sincere

calling people shitlibs because they take a joke too seriously. and then implying that the mass harassment somebody got might have been deserved is asshat behavior however you slice it

we basically never need to give Democrats credit for anything. we also don't need to give the GOP credit by saying they actually have the capacity to do the level of violence they're promising to do for attention on X the everything app

@unktheunk would you rephrase this I don't think I understand

@kittenlikeasmallcat nyx is in the wrong here and was being a needlessly combative asshole

Using "Democrat" as a slur is dumb and imprecise at best

Treating the GOPs genocidal attitude as literally identical to Nazi Germany gives the GOP far too much credit as to their strength of conviction and general competence

@unktheunk I disagree because I believe it's a very fair understanding of incompetence and malicious complicity and explicitly intentional controlled opposition to use 'democrat' as an insult, being sure of and angry about this is productive, in my opinion.

Comparisons between two states that are so dynamically codependent in their creation, ideology, and influence are almost redundant. That's not so much the point of an analysis that equates the two - fascism is ongoing, there is a material continuity there. Seeking a discrete taxonomy for each brand doesn't do as much good as identifying each manifestation's unique modes and strategies. This tactical insight isn't really damaged by understanding the big picture that they are in many ways the same. Beyond this, it can be rhetorically useful to invoke salient parallels between the widely despised, understood villain archetype of the historical german nazi and its contemporary amerikkkan manifestation.

@kittenlikeasmallcat but I deliberately didn't take a side on the substance of the disagreement itself. Nyx, when confronted with an argument she didnt want to respond to said essentally "you fell for the bait lol" instead of butching up and saying whether or not she believes in the thing she said to start the argument.

someone taking a tone that you find annoying and having positions that you happen to think are counterproductive does not make them controlled opposition. I'm not calling you controlled opposition now am I?

The words you're saying imply some very direct material accusations of Eris here. Do you literally think that Eris is a deliberate agent trying to undermine and neuter criticism of the American empire? or do you just think she's naive and cringe for taking a joke too seriously?

@unktheunk I can be clearer. The Democratic party is controlled opposition, and I feel I have good reason to believe that anyone endorsing it is naive at best. The point of the OP was, as far as I can see, simply to bring attention to how absurdly awful things are in the US, by comparing it to something that's already understood to be largely also strikingly awful but fundamentally different in one substantial way. That point, made for an audience that should have been generous in its interpretation, was grievously overlooked in such a way that was disorientingly not generous. I'm sure that the context of nyx very notably not being an avowed fascist heteropatriarchical lunatic should have been sufficient to avoid anyone responding with what amounts to amerikkkan apologia.

@kittenlikeasmallcat I am member of the Democratic party actively involved in making said party less of controlled opposition. you do not have to tell me the various ways the Democratic party sucks ass. I know this better than you do

Dont you see how Nyx obviously not being a sincere supporter of the IRGC doesnt really do anything about my point?

the point being that Nyx was being an obstinate asshole.

refusing to even pretend to reciprocate the contrition and caveats that Eris was giving at the time. and then continually prodding Eris after the fact

@unktheunk Would you point those caveats out for me?

My take is that the dems are utterly a lost cause, and keeping them on life support is one thing out of ten thousand enabling the rest of the system. I don't think either of us can make a definitive statement about the legitimacy of the other's point of view.

@kittenlikeasmallcat looks like I misremembered there was one caveat "while the Nazi comparisons are useful for describing the treatment of immigrants"

My point is admittedly weaker after correcting that mistake. But I stand by it, you and Nyx were (and Nyx still is) being abrasive and dismissive toward the concerns from Eris.

Look through the points that were made here

Nyx: haha trans Iran
Eris: actually thats bad
Nyx: oh really what about the other extreme?
Eris: dont need to do either
Nyx: America is nazis
Eris: America isnt fully nazis, and that's not relevant anyway, just admit youre wrong
Nyx: shitlib fell for the bait

is this any of this summary unfair? does any of this make nyx sound reasonable? has anything she's said since really made any of this better?

@unktheunk It was clear to me that the idea was very unambiguously not to talk about how cool iran is or to flatten the US into some ahistorical absurdity, but to draw attention to the biting irony of a larger process, illustrated by something like *spins wheel* kansas doing a handmaiden's tale to trans people's ID's, for just one example. I can't wrap my mind around how outrageous it is to miss that so completely for the sake of defending this idealized notion of liberalism so many are hitched to, and I think it's quite reasonable to be aghast and to act like it. It's not my business to tone police someone or even to give my approval or disapproval of anything like that, but to answer you, I'd characterize it as patient compassion tinged by deep, sensible indignant rage and profound dissappointment.

@kittenlikeasmallcat and Nyx was the one to bring up Democrats, not Eris.

@georgia @nyx i don't defend this kind of stuff happening And the rhetoric around trans existence in Iran being worth celebrating is stupid as fuck but this article from the bbc is so clearly framed in transphobic terms

@kittenlikeasmallcat "sometimes people show their true shitlib colors when responding to obvious bait" is patient compassion eh?

and you're not spinning the wheel, that example was the crux of the secondary argument. and is unequivocally the most extreme action taken against trans people in the US so far