sometimes the left is quite silly with regard to israel although I agree with them in many cases. "no hebrew, dont go to the place where you have religious, ethnic, and cultural roots, you would displace the palestinians. instead, move to america, where we already displaced the native population". its paternalistic and misguided.

@georgia I think anyone should be allowed to live anywhere, it's just that nobody should be allowed to do settler-colonialism, apartheid, and genocide about it. and in cases where these things /have/ been done, reparation and restitution is a must, and advancing the end thereof is the duty of all conscious persons with any kind of material stake in the matter, whether they stand to gain or lose from justice being done. this is true of both occupied palestine and occupied turtle island

@georgia
why are amerikkkan leftists so hung up on this issue?
The imperial war machine blows apart the middle east or south america every two months but performing the anti-war populist only finds any mass base when directed at the jewish nation.
Is it the issues with budget or the lobbyism, jewish antizionists, academic anti-colonial ideology that make this such a popcultural phenomenon?
Especially with radlibs they are 10000x more likely to get drafted to defend ukraine than israel at any given moment yet they will emphasize how they "won't die for Israel" while they shill the Zelensky regime 24/7. I don't even know if the IDF would take US soldiers as qualified combatants

@patchuun agree on most accounts but what country is israel a colony of

@georgia you guys came from hell, go back

@georgia They're just axiomatically 3rd worldist, in the original sense of that term. Israel is a microcosm of American Imperialism to them, and they identify with the victims of that system no matter what. If Jews were somewhere else that would eventually be deconstructed by them too.

@georgia the easy answer is the UK I suppose, a more diehard one "western capital/liberalism as a whole", but admittedly I'm not too interested in litigating the semantics over what constitutes "settler colonialism" and moreso interested in the rights of indigenous peoples to live free of oppression and subjugation

@georgia As popular as antisemitism has gotten on the Right and Left, Europeans and Jews are in the same boat here. There is literally nothing we could do and nowhere we could go that would make the radical elements of the Leftist coalition happy, they will never acknowledge the benefits the world has seen from recent history.

It's best to just ignore it.

@patchuun almost no jews in israel have any roots in the UK and the UK flip flopped constantly on supporting zionism. the simple answer is that jews were a stateless people, not a true colony of any nation, though they were obviously settlers. also, both jews and palestinians are indigenous to palestine, but calling either the "indigenous people" is frankly individous of true indigenous peoples like the samaritans. as usual leftist rhetoric on Israel/palestine is oversimplified and falsely casts the jewish nation and all middle eastern nations in western terms

@georgia as far as I'm concerned, all people should be stateless eventually 🤷‍♀️
that aside I don't think it's impossible to argue in good faith that the early amerikkkan colonists were "stateless" either, and certainly not the "revolutionaries" a few generations later (although I am actually skeptical of them being "revolutionary", in part because I've read Gerald Horne, lol)

@patchuun I get why you'd say that but jews are an ancient diaspora people oppressed and historically ghettoized and subject to disabilities for being such, for belonging to different and foreign ethnic (and often cultural) mores, especially racial antisemitism and the drefyfus affair motivated immigration to israel. these were not merely people of a different ideological strain or economic opportunists. and even loyal assimilated jews were treated like the "palestinians among us" (as kant said) hence dreyfus. you honestly really can diminish the experiences of stateless peoples (which include the Palestinians more or less, and obviously Kurds and Tibetans and such) by saying the british, dutch, french, people who moved to america were of that likeness. the british, dutch, french, people who immigrated all spoke the same tongue and worshipped the same or a very similar God as the nations they came from. I'm curious though, what's your take on the american revolutionaries? I always found it queer how we celebrate people who literally tarred and feathered (a fucked up torture method).

@georgia >I'm curious though, what's your take on the amerikkkan revolutionaries?
mostly negative, tbh. again I've read horne (namely the counter-revolution of 1776) but I didn't really even need to do that to already view the USA as an illegitimate state

@patchuun states are silly things period tbh. they take themselves way too seriously. states are the gender of nations