really the only major differences between the Israeli genocide of Palestinians and the English genocide of the Irish is that England didn't have The United States of Epstein bankrolling them, they couldn't claim people who were opposed to their genocide were antisemtic, and the Irish mostly won.

@vriska the irish are much more similar to the jews than the palestinians but you aren't ready for that. both originally victimized peoples oppressed and colonized. both participated in large scale settlement of land that wasnt theirs or that was theirs 2000 years ago because they were escaping dire conditions. both not white then became white. both have a very outsize influenced on america. both have huge diasporas. both have ethnostates with a right of return based on descent. both are extremely natalist, although fortunately ireland updated its abortion laws to allow women who were going to die or raped children to get abortions. btw watch how to get to heaven from belfast, its a very good show and short.

@georgia @vriska sure but I think vriskas original point is still valid. The English never did like industrialized mass murder of the Irish, they just subjected them to horrendous living conditions, enslaved them, took their land, refused to help why they were starving, etc.

@yakmacker @georgia the english absolutely did that in the middle ages

@vriska @yakmacker yak is right actually

@georgia the Hebrew language still exists and is spoken by millions. Irish Gaelic is critically endangered. Israel was never forcibly converted by a genocidal colonial power twice. the IRA didn't counter-invade england and start raping their children. The IRA haven't ever blown up a children's hospital or destroyed every single university in a country. You really do not know enough about this to lecture me. I don't tell you about what the holocaust was "really like". know your role.

@georgia @yakmacker you are wrong.

@vriska @georgia to call anything in the middle ages "industrialized" is a bit of a stretch, and I think enslavement didn't really take off until the early modern period, with Cromwell and the like.

Also I feel like the "just" I wrote could be taken to make it sound as if that doesn't make it a brutal genocide, which it absolutely is.

@georgia @yakmacker I guess it wasn't industrialized because it wasn't the industrial age. that I will concede. but forcing the tribal population to convert to catholicism and abandon their culture and kill a LOT of them only to turn around a few hundred years later and do the same thing but with Prot nonsense is a double genocide. during the troubles they were shooting children in the streets.

@yakmacker @georgia yeah thats fair, it wasn't industrialized but they certainly did mass murders. they just used swords.

@georgia AND you're doing the thing where I am specifically talking about the state of Israel and assuming I mean "all jews". I have no problem at all with jewish people. All Jews don't support Benjamin Epsteinyahoos genocide nonsense. and after Ireland was done blowing up limey occupiers they didn't commit revenge genocides under the cover of "you can't criticize my obvious evil or you are racist"

@vriska @georgia the thing about the middle ages is that an army was like a hundred guys, and most states were practically powerless by today's standards. They just didn't have the capacity to do something comparable to a 20th-century genocide.

But, I digress.

@yakmacker @georgia they successfully killed an entire culture and tens of thousands of people and forcibly converted them all. genocides a genocide. mass murders are mass murders.

like I said in the thread the only real difference besides levels of technology is that England didn't have half a trillion dollars in US cruise missiles or the ability to silence all of their critics by claiming if you weren't on board you were basically a nazi.

@georgia @vriska ireland has been invaded 3 times in its ancient histories and ireland lost the right of return (the EU made them delete it)

@yakmacker @georgia you are right though, it was good ol fashioned old school genocide.

@icedquinn @georgia Ireland also never attempted to colonize or subjugate anyone else but hey

(counting inter-gaelic and celt tribe warfare is disingenuous. That's like saying that the apache and comanche wars were colonial genocide.

@vriska @yakmacker @georgia i'm going to be pedantic and annoying about this: genocide is about genetic extermination. that is not what israel does. what they do is a flat out war of aggression. they have decided the world belongs to them and if anyone has a problem about it they're going to crybully about hitler.

@vriska @georgia yeah irish history is mostly about getting fucked over by other people and not so much doing the fucking over. they tend to be... mostly friendly, when they go overseas. actually end up enslaved everywhere ("men of the bag")

which is wild because celts will absolutely end you rightly on a battlefield, god damn.

@icedquinn @georgia @yakmacker idk man it sure seems to me like they're wanting to end Palestinian genetics

@vriska @georgia @yakmacker they paid them to leave at first, then they invented terrorists (hamas) to take over the remaining statehoods to force people out, and whats left are people who really didn't want to give up their homes, so its a bit of that "put a wrench in your own bike" meme.

kind of like how the united states created al quaeda to proxy war russians and then al quaeda just.. completely shuts off and is never heard from again when trump found them inconvenient politically.

that they tried the soft ejection sort of argues against it being a blanket genocide (nazi germany certainly did not pay jews to just be someone else's problem) but it is absolutely engineering a conflict to justify taking land they believe they are owed (their own futurist mock-ups have gaza colonized by them.)

@vriska @yakmacker @georgia They DID however have money from jewish banking in London, after 1500 the jewish-protestant alliance was based on "prots fight the catholics jews fund their wars and press, any conquest achieved you guys pay back the loans by giving preferential business deals (De Beers is just the most famous example, though that wasn't catholic land)", and that only changed to culture wars rather than "gun down any catholic you can" after the 1880s.

@vriska @georgia @yakmacker some of it is truly baffling like they always attack around the time peace talks happen, and they always use miraculously ineffective weapons for the job. you'd figure they KNOW about the iron dome, right? how can you know about that shit and still try to throw a bunch of bottle caps over and talk about how you're winning. like if they aren't controlled opposition they're functionally illiterate

one of the funnier things with worked jobs is that the state officials are never victims. the FBI doesn't blow up a court house, a military base, anything that someone would actually do if their goal was to generate operational defects in an opponent. its always whatevers pareto-optimal for the news cycle when this shit happens, and then warmongers get what they want out of it.

but either way, its awful and my empire should have nothing to do with it. i just think its worth being precise.

@icedquinn @georgia @yakmacker I still think that the moment you start mass killing civilians of one particular ethnicity it's a genocide, but to be more accurate it's a genocide focused on Arabs. See Lebanon, Iran, Syria, etc

And yeah you can also very easily tell which terrorist groups are ops and which aren't. Iran had no problem with the iron dome

@vriska @georgia @yakmacker iran did chip damage to an american carrier or something, the state department was extremely quiet about it.

@icedquinn @georgia @yakmacker you didn't see all those vids of tel Aviv getting bombed a few months back?

@vriska @georgia @yakmacker i don't read news since like a year and a half now

i did hear some people were quite ass blasted that iran figured out they can just flood the iron dome with garbage for cheaper than it costs to restock, though, and people got very quiet about it.

@icedquinn @vriska @georgia @yakmacker Chip damage? they set the control tower on fire

@vriska @icedquinn @yakmacker theres definitely a genocide of gazans in particular. whether its totally intentional is somewhat debatable but that rhetoric exists in israeli political discourse. you can't completely control a territory and bomb it without caring what youre bombing while blocking food and medical treatment without it being at the very least a genocidal massacre.

I'll address your previous comment:
-the hebrew language only exists because it was a liturgical language which was revived with great effort after not being the common tongue for millennia.
-the israelites were actually forcibly converted, this is what happened to the lost ten tribes not to mention the crusades, the Inquisition, etc. it is estimated that there were up to 7 million jews in the roman empire, there are only about twice that today despite the world population increasing so much since then. the bar kochba resulted in the dispossession of almost the entire judean population. you already know about the holocaust, I could go on.
-most of those killed in the troubles were civillians, but an order of magnitude less than the low estimate of total gazan death, so i wont press this comparison. you misunderstand me if you think I'm comparing the republic of ireland to the state of israel. its irish americans (who comprise the vast majority of irish) who took part in the american colonial project. and the irish irish wouldve been major slavers like the Scottish were if not for english laws clamping down on irish ports.
-telling me to "know my role" is very cringe. I know you say I don't know much about this but I did some research after being criticized for saying most scholars dont consider the potato famine a genocide. and calling the killing of the irish at any point in history "industrial" is just wrong, its not merely a holocaust with swords, the scale is much smaller than a modern genocide and the people targeted werent merely the religious. there were massacres, but a full genocide with direct killing (destroying infrastructure and it causing disease or not helping is different) is not something scholarship agrees on.

@icedquinn @vriska @yakmacker I get all my news from fedi as of 2020. its blissful. if I didnt I would hate this country truly. although not my state, my state is great.

@georgia @vriska @yakmacker my states super awesome they put banning weed above saving chlidren while claiming its to save children and then like 30+ of them drown to death because they shut down a bipartisan vote to upgrade the flood response to ban weed for the alcohol lobby

and by great i mean its only the #3 hellhole in the south

@icedquinn @vriska @yakmacker damn that really sucks