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georgia
georgia
on "idolatry"
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all things are God, yes. who can feel revulsion or hatred for others when they know this? for the world? what is to be rejected except that which leads away from God, and thus for one who already knows God, what is to be rejected? thus the material world can be enjoyed by the knowing.
for the knowing hindu, the murti is a celebration of divine immanence. when what is called by abrahamics "idolatry" occurs, it occurs without knowing that the world is God and that God is active in the world. one can worship even a clod of earth as God in knowledge, but if one worships a clod as if God is a clod, he is in great error. so basically, a murti is God, but God is not a murti. we are God, God is not us. God is the only reality.
this applies to "polytheism" ie worshipping lords other than God as well, whether devas or "god-men" (the latter assuming they actually have siddhis and are not frauds, grifters and cult leaders like 99 percent of them). worshipping something for a limited function (he is the god of rain, he makes the rain. or, he is a "god-man", he can walk on water. or, it is an idol, it facilitates my worship by looking like a god.) rather than its unlimited essence is ignorance, and often sinful. the essence of all things is God, the function varies. only God is identical in His existence and energy/powers and His essence (divine simplicity), both truly infinite. which is to say God can perform any function by His inherent freedom and potency, but i should say that worshipping Him in anticipation of a reward is a much lesser form of worship.
as for the devas and the siddhas, they are agents of God, aligned with His will. if they are amazing and venerable, it is because God is. worshiping them in their own right is ignorance and leads to karmic bondage, especially if it is for selfish reasons. selfishness too is rooted in ignorance.
let me return to murtis. murtis are instruments of getting closer to God through knowing action (knowing about God, knowing about oneself, and knowing about the murti). and in a similar manner that giving a child a doll can foster loving feelings of parenthood and responsibility, bathing a murti (for example) creates feelings of love for God. and to love God is to know God, because God is love. what could be wrong about that? proper murti worship is not just bhakti but also nishkama karma and jnana. all these paths lead to God. but without jnana, it all falls apart. ignorant love is not love, its infatuation, and like all desire, its selfish.
for the knowing hindu, the murti is a celebration of divine immanence. when what is called by abrahamics "idolatry" occurs, it occurs without knowing that the world is God and that God is active in the world. one can worship even a clod of earth as God in knowledge, but if one worships a clod as if God is a clod, he is in great error. so basically, a murti is God, but God is not a murti. we are God, God is not us. God is the only reality.
this applies to "polytheism" ie worshipping lords other than God as well, whether devas or "god-men" (the latter assuming they actually have siddhis and are not frauds, grifters and cult leaders like 99 percent of them). worshipping something for a limited function (he is the god of rain, he makes the rain. or, he is a "god-man", he can walk on water. or, it is an idol, it facilitates my worship by looking like a god.) rather than its unlimited essence is ignorance, and often sinful. the essence of all things is God, the function varies. only God is identical in His existence and energy/powers and His essence (divine simplicity), both truly infinite. which is to say God can perform any function by His inherent freedom and potency, but i should say that worshipping Him in anticipation of a reward is a much lesser form of worship.
as for the devas and the siddhas, they are agents of God, aligned with His will. if they are amazing and venerable, it is because God is. worshiping them in their own right is ignorance and leads to karmic bondage, especially if it is for selfish reasons. selfishness too is rooted in ignorance.
let me return to murtis. murtis are instruments of getting closer to God through knowing action (knowing about God, knowing about oneself, and knowing about the murti). and in a similar manner that giving a child a doll can foster loving feelings of parenthood and responsibility, bathing a murti (for example) creates feelings of love for God. and to love God is to know God, because God is love. what could be wrong about that? proper murti worship is not just bhakti but also nishkama karma and jnana. all these paths lead to God. but without jnana, it all falls apart. ignorant love is not love, its infatuation, and like all desire, its selfish.
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on "idolatry"
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also, to love God is to know God not just because God is love, but because God is worthy of love, obviously.
anydangway, I'm not totally sure how I feel about guru veneration, aka veneration of the liberated (the non-liberated should not be spiritual gurus). its said that to know Brahman is to be Brahman, yes, and jivanmuktas/buddhas have all sort of adorable qualities because of their knowledge and purity (omniscience, sinlessness, and various incredible powers). I think that my argument about worship with true knowledge never being a sin applies here too. if you truly know your guru is God and she has attained God-realization, then you are not in error by worshipping her, even though the liberated dont have all of Gods qualities, being still limited in various ways (having perishable form and not possessing infinite power or freedom) until they die and merge in God. I dont believe that blind faith your guru is God is enough, because one can have complete faith anything (like an LLM) is God, and without knowledge of the truth of monism, this is delusion and sin. anyway, this kind of intense faith with right knowledge comes very late on most peoples spiritual path in the age of kali yuga. so for the neophyte, or worse, for third parties, guru worship very easily leads them further from God.
many hindus dont just show gurus reverence, but show all devotees reverence. this is very prominent among vaisnavas, who greet eachother with "dandavat" referring to bowing like a stick. I dont believe that just anyone should be bowed to in this manner, only the liberated, and only with right knowledge. right knowledge means knowledge and faith in this knowledge. knowledge without faith in it can never fructify in spiritual realization.
I should restate that we are living in kali yuga, the most depraved of eras. most gurus are not liberated, and most devotees are easily misled. in such a time idolatry aka worship of what is not God is inevitable.
anydangway, I'm not totally sure how I feel about guru veneration, aka veneration of the liberated (the non-liberated should not be spiritual gurus). its said that to know Brahman is to be Brahman, yes, and jivanmuktas/buddhas have all sort of adorable qualities because of their knowledge and purity (omniscience, sinlessness, and various incredible powers). I think that my argument about worship with true knowledge never being a sin applies here too. if you truly know your guru is God and she has attained God-realization, then you are not in error by worshipping her, even though the liberated dont have all of Gods qualities, being still limited in various ways (having perishable form and not possessing infinite power or freedom) until they die and merge in God. I dont believe that blind faith your guru is God is enough, because one can have complete faith anything (like an LLM) is God, and without knowledge of the truth of monism, this is delusion and sin. anyway, this kind of intense faith with right knowledge comes very late on most peoples spiritual path in the age of kali yuga. so for the neophyte, or worse, for third parties, guru worship very easily leads them further from God.
many hindus dont just show gurus reverence, but show all devotees reverence. this is very prominent among vaisnavas, who greet eachother with "dandavat" referring to bowing like a stick. I dont believe that just anyone should be bowed to in this manner, only the liberated, and only with right knowledge. right knowledge means knowledge and faith in this knowledge. knowledge without faith in it can never fructify in spiritual realization.
I should restate that we are living in kali yuga, the most depraved of eras. most gurus are not liberated, and most devotees are easily misled. in such a time idolatry aka worship of what is not God is inevitable.
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