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snacks
snacks
pro tip for indie devs: Don't make a multiplayer only game unless it's 2 player coop or smth like that
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snacks
snacks
@nemesis @arcana if you're willing to take the extra risk i'm not stopping you, but even big ass studios with marketing budgets have to just give up because even they struggle to hit the player numbers to make multiplayer games work shockingly often. Granted in those cases it's usually because the game isn't good and tries to enter a basically saturated market (mmos or hero shooters)
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arcana@layer02.net
arcana@layer02.net
@snacks @nemesis Interestingly, there's MMOs that can pull it off because they don't actually rely on a critical mass of players.
Like RuneScape can be played fully single player and in fact they even have several modes to do so, including a co op option.
There's the quests, PvE, etc. which make it viable to play solo. It however gains because it's got everything needed to effectively be a single player RPG with the added "hey, I'm going to ask my friends to play with me"
Also a low barrier to entry, no initial buy in or even download helped a huge amount.
Like RuneScape can be played fully single player and in fact they even have several modes to do so, including a co op option.
There's the quests, PvE, etc. which make it viable to play solo. It however gains because it's got everything needed to effectively be a single player RPG with the added "hey, I'm going to ask my friends to play with me"
Also a low barrier to entry, no initial buy in or even download helped a huge amount.
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arcana@layer02.net
arcana@layer02.net
@nemesis @snacks Yep, and so much of that is in itself heavily correlated to things like wishlists on Steam.
Interestingly, one of the few games that did actually seem to get that snowball effect was RuneScape which took years to reach it's peak but kept growing year on year up until about 2008 and the removal of free trade
Interestingly, one of the few games that did actually seem to get that snowball effect was RuneScape which took years to reach it's peak but kept growing year on year up until about 2008 and the removal of free trade
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arcana@layer02.net
arcana@layer02.net
@snacks @nemesis Oh it definitely can be a death sentence. I used to play the game Chivalry which was multiplayer and had a lot of players. The company that made it came out with a new game years later called Mirage which was basically a Middle Eastern variation with a bit of magic added in and it was basically just dead on arrival and never had any players.
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snacks
snacks
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arcana@layer02.net
arcana@layer02.net
@nemesis @snacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Inactive_multiplayer_online_games
There's a wiki list of them interestingly
There's a wiki list of them interestingly
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snacks
snacks
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arcana@layer02.net
arcana@layer02.net
@nemesis @snacks Yes I think so.
I think games like Verdun did well simply because there were no other WWI based games at the time and it was back in the early 2010s so they had a bit of critical mass with Steam Greenlight.
Single player but being able to invite friends seems like a winning strategy if executed well.
I think games like Verdun did well simply because there were no other WWI based games at the time and it was back in the early 2010s so they had a bit of critical mass with Steam Greenlight.
Single player but being able to invite friends seems like a winning strategy if executed well.
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arcana@layer02.net
arcana@layer02.net
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nemesis@layer02.net
nemesis@layer02.net
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nemesis@layer02.net
nemesis@layer02.net
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arcana@layer02.net
arcana@layer02.net
@nemesis @snacks I think that's because they discontinued it. I don't think it's actually possible to play Overwatch 1 any more. Though maybe changing to Overwatch 2 killed the entire game.
Even huge companies have flops with these kinds of game I think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concord_(video_game)
I feel like Hero Shooters are a big part of the issue. You're basically doing a lot of work in developing the lore, distinct characters, balancing across everybody, and then it can just flop hard.
Even huge companies have flops with these kinds of game I think: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concord_(video_game)
I feel like Hero Shooters are a big part of the issue. You're basically doing a lot of work in developing the lore, distinct characters, balancing across everybody, and then it can just flop hard.
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snacks
snacks
@arcana @nemesis never played runescape, but every game with a decent amount of single player content is prob fine.
Was thinking about it for a while and if i made a game with mp focus i'd try to do it in a similar fashion to modern monster hunter where you can invite people to join, having fights/dungeons balanced around that possibilty and then add some optional content that's intended to be mp only
Was thinking about it for a while and if i made a game with mp focus i'd try to do it in a similar fashion to modern monster hunter where you can invite people to join, having fights/dungeons balanced around that possibilty and then add some optional content that's intended to be mp only
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nemesis@layer02.net
nemesis@layer02.net
@arcana @snacks they shut it down because of overwatch 2 yeah
I just meant that they shut down games for reasons other than unprofitability. overwatch was shut down because they didnt want to split the playerbase. not sure about ace combat infinity but I think that was due to platform support (it was ps3 dependent)
I just meant that they shut down games for reasons other than unprofitability. overwatch was shut down because they didnt want to split the playerbase. not sure about ace combat infinity but I think that was due to platform support (it was ps3 dependent)
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snacks
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arcana@layer02.net
arcana@layer02.net
@snacks @nemesis Most popular shooter remains the one where you all basically play as the same guy with the same selection of weapons and there's no abilities you just shoot each other.
Games like Counterstrike have multitudes more tactical depth and a far higher skill reward than Hero shooters imo for a fraction of the price.
A lot of modern games feel like they're made by people who basically want to make a movie or write a novel.
I think this is actually a way in which the whole "video games are art" thing has damaged a lot of games.
Games like Counterstrike have multitudes more tactical depth and a far higher skill reward than Hero shooters imo for a fraction of the price.
A lot of modern games feel like they're made by people who basically want to make a movie or write a novel.
I think this is actually a way in which the whole "video games are art" thing has damaged a lot of games.
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Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
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@sun @arcana @nemesis @snacks remember Kingdom of Loathing? it's still running after 22 years. it's HTML-based and not realtime, but maybe you can learn something from it as a game dev who wants a minimalist design. though one of the creators got #metoo'd.
https://www.kingdomofloathing.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Loathing#Controversy
https://www.kingdomofloathing.com/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Loathing#Controversy
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arcana@layer02.net
arcana@layer02.net
@sun @nemesis @snacks
- Several Go micro services at the back end for things like login and world select, the game/world servers/shards, chat server
- Perl Mojolicious will be used for the website part in future (knowledge base, register account, subscription, etc.)
- Postgres (though using SQLite for the MVP)
- ThreeJS and HTML5 on the front end
- Several Go micro services at the back end for things like login and world select, the game/world servers/shards, chat server
- Perl Mojolicious will be used for the website part in future (knowledge base, register account, subscription, etc.)
- Postgres (though using SQLite for the MVP)
- ThreeJS and HTML5 on the front end
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@sun @arcana @nemesis @snacks also check out this game, it tries to copy the spirit of 90s BBSes and their games
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1511780/Last_Call_BBS/
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1511780/Last_Call_BBS/
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nemesis@layer02.net
nemesis@layer02.net
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@coolboymew @noyoushutthefuckupdad @arcana @nemesis @snacks @sun whats your steam account ill gift it to you
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@noyoushutthefuckupdad @sun @arcana @nemesis @snacks The food court game in that is addictive. Very faithful to its Zachtronics nature. Wouldn't say it's "BBS" games though, it's more replicating 16 bits era (Amiga, Win 3.1) games as you might have downloaded them on a BBS, than the door games that would be running on the BBS.
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@coolboymew @arcana @nemesis @noyoushutthefuckupdad @snacks @sun zachtronics ludokino should always float to the top of the backlog
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@why @arcana @nemesis @noyoushutthefuckupdad @snacks @sun There's just too much man. So much to do, so much to see
So what's wrong with taking the backstreets?
You'll never know if you don't go
You'll never shine if you don't glow
Hey now, you're an all star
Get your game on, go play
Hey now, you're a rock star
Get the show on, get paid
(And all that glitters is gold)
Only shootin' stars break the mold
So what's wrong with taking the backstreets?
You'll never know if you don't go
You'll never shine if you don't glow
Hey now, you're an all star
Get your game on, go play
Hey now, you're a rock star
Get the show on, get paid
(And all that glitters is gold)
Only shootin' stars break the mold
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Blurry Moon
sun@shitposter.world
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A lot of modern games feel like they’re made by people who basically want to make a movie or write a novel.
I think it’s a valid approach if someone makes a visual novel or some sort of a walking simulator, I don’t like when devs try to tack on unavoidable action sequences in a game where you can get by talking most of the time (hello Planescape: Torment endgame. And Curst before that, but at least then you have your party with you).
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nemesis@layer02.net
nemesis@layer02.net
@arcana @mold @snacks I think its less tacking stuff on and more like, devs dont appreciate that infinite experience generators are not only much better monetarily (less content so cheaper to make, and much more likely to be successful---the same gdc talk I referenced earlier), but also arguably more interesting to design compared to linear experiences. I mean maybe that doesnt apply to all teams, if your team is 100% artists or something maybe it makes sense to go for a linear experience, and of course some people have a creative vision that fits that really well. but ime if you have a programmer heavy team its kind of a waste not to make an infinite simulation of some kind
(this is the gdc presentation I was referencing btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIqz5xmQKnc)
(this is the gdc presentation I was referencing btw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIqz5xmQKnc)
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arcana@layer02.net
arcana@layer02.net
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nemesis@layer02.net
nemesis@layer02.net
@phnt @arcana @mold @snacks that said the people who really need to hear this arent the suits, its indie devs
if you try to make an interactive movie as an indie dev not only is it actually a lot harder than a mechanics-oriented game, you're effectively competing against people who are doing the same thing but with 1000x your budget. and if you succeed you'll get a game that people get on sale for $5 on steam and play for a few hours and forget about it
if you try to make an interactive movie as an indie dev not only is it actually a lot harder than a mechanics-oriented game, you're effectively competing against people who are doing the same thing but with 1000x your budget. and if you succeed you'll get a game that people get on sale for $5 on steam and play for a few hours and forget about it
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