My old-blood WASP relatives are more indigenous to America than my Ashkenazi relatives are indigenous to Palestine

I think a useful definition for indigeneity would be having lived in a region for long enough that having moved there has passed out of living memory

@scathach thats literally not true, Ashkenazi DNA is about 50 percent Canaanite and Ashkenazi's have also preserved the indigenous language and religion of the israelites.

@scathach My mom's side is DAR (Daughters of the American Revolution). We go almost all the way back on both sides. People ask me "are you like, german?" (due to last name sounding vaguely like it could be) and I tell them flatly, that we do not know. We're American.

@georgia Irrelevant since they've lived in central Europe for many hundreds of years

Really unfortunate consequence of this definition is that some white settler Jews would indeed be indigenous to Palestine but I can't think of anything better

@scathach Sephardic Jews havent lived in the middle east for many many years either, and Iranian Jews have been away from Palestine even longer than askenazis. its irrelevance is just your opinion. indigeneity doesnt expire in my opinion. if your culture revolves around a land and your ancestors lived and became a people there, youre indigenous.

@georgia @scathach jew this, jew that, why don't jew get some bitches

@scathach @georgia realistically they (the jews) lost the war and got expelled from the land, so we might be having the same argument in 200 years about whether Palestinians who have been living in Jordan since being expelled have a right to return to the land (by force as the Jews are doing or otherwise)

Both are indigenous but Israelis are clearly incapable of agreeing to a solution that doesn't involve being genocidal retards so I don't care to respect them

@eris @scathach this is a very good take.

@georgia @scathach some new studies have contradicted this. ashkenazis have turkish and iranian and european DNA and migrated or converted to judaeism in the middle ages. https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/genetics/articles/10.3389/fgene.2017.00087/full

@meowski @scathach I NEW it would be am Eran elhaik study. hes been producing dubious studies on the subject based on his agenda to prove the khazar myth for literally decades. ive seen very recent studies contradict this. his theories are fringe. https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/ancient-cultures/ancient-near-eastern-world/jews-and-arabs-descended-from-canaanites/

@georgia @scathach this is pretty convoluted but taken at face value say ashkenazis do contain some amount of bronze age canaanite DNA from millenia ago, how does this give anyone an ancestral claim to modern day israel (not the same as ancient canaan) to displace modern palestinians whse families have been there also for hundreds of years?

the zionist ideology is made of lies and half truths. paletsinians are as semitic as any israelis and many israelis (i would say the majority) are simply europeans.

holocaust mythology combined with God's chosen people superiority complex has gone far enough. it's fanatical.

you can debate about genetics all day long. it's not really conclusive, nobody is a pure blood isrealite at this point. they need to just get along with their neighbors

@meowski @scathach yeah its time to agree to disagree, except with the "Zionism is too extreme" and "they should get along" parts

@georgia @scathach fair enough because these are the only points with any practical relevance

@georgia @scathach there are some Jews indigenous to Palestine (though many of them are legally classified as "Arab" by the apartheid state), but the Zionist claim that Jews have a historical right to the land of Palestine is a fabricated myth to serve imperialism and cover up ethnic cleansing. by and large israelis are not indigenous, they are settlers occupying the land

@realpetrateal @scathach youre wrong unless your definition of indigenous excludes cultural, religious, and genetic indigeneity. but I'm not gonna argue this.

@georgia @scathach of course it excludes those things. "cultural" and "religious" are just flat out not criteria for indigeneity, those things have no direct relation to place, it would be absurd to define indigenous based on those. a biblical covenant from thousands of years ago has no bearing on today's world, or even on the ancient world for that matter (is the mythologized genocide of Philistines by Israelites in the book of Joshua justified by "religious indigeneity"?). and "genetic indigeneity" is just ethno-nationalist eugenic pseudoscience. Europeans and Americans are not indigenous to Palestine. you are just parroting Zionist talking points. I'm not going to argue further on this either, there's no point getting into a prolonged debate with someone who's just doing hasbara

@georgia @scathach also, you're just directly wrong on all points.

"...it contradicts the notion that European Jews mostly descend from people who left Israel and the Middle East around 2,000 years ago. Instead, a substantial proportion of the population originates from local Europeans who converted to Judaism..."
https://www.nbcnews.com/sciencemain/most-ashkenazi-jews-are-genetically-europeans-surprising-study-finds-8C11358210

@georgia A cultural connection to a specific place does change it a bit, yeah

What I'm saying though is I don't think that genetics is at all useful for these kinds of things when a) culture matters a lot more and b) the logical conclusion of that is nobody is indigenous to anywhere except east Africa